HM2 Final Multiple

[DocSteen]

Just wanted to see what people thought...

Do you think the final multiple to pick up second class will go up or down. For the last exam it is at 182.

I looked and it seemed like alot of HM1s made HMC, so that means more people moving on up.

[Da-Chief]

Well you just answered your own question..

1sts making Chief have nothing to do with people picking up 2nd..

The question you want to ask is..

How many 2nds pick up 1st to create billets for the HM3's..

And let me tell you something..

I have seen times where they have not promoted everyone they could due to piss pour test scores...

So Who knows..

We shall see, you should study like your the "1" person who will nail it!

Good Luck!

Da-Chief

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Reasonable logic, but no guarantee it will transfer down. Don't forget that the Navy is downsizing so there will be less HM billets at certain paygrades. Lower than expected attrition at the HM1 level for other reasons will also reduce the open slots for HM2's to move up.

Furthermore, the cutting score is determined each year by things like everyone's FMS. Think of it like a bell curve or when a teacher grades on a curve. If you have a bunch of outstanding candidates with high FMS, then the cutting score will also be higher even if there are more open slots.

I am not saying that any of this is happenning (other than downsizing), I am just pointing out flaws with that type of logic.

Moral of the story, don't plan on a lower score to improve your chance of promotion. You can control your FMS, but not the Navy's cutting score. Your best bet is to improve your performance for better eval scores and to study more for better exam scores. You can also earn award points and deployment points towards your FMS.

[Da-Chief]

Also I forgot to mention..

There is a new computation for the final mulitple.. Learn it live it understand it.

Thanks HMC.. Good response!

Da-Chief

P.s I spelled Poor as POUR??

Yeeesh

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Top Doc's that "don't test well" should have a better shot at promotion. I forget the exact percentage at this moment, but they increased the performance factor so Eval's are now that much more important.

[puckmedic]

Know the BIB inside and out. If you have study questions, drill tehm until you know them with out having four choices. If you're operational always be available to your squadron, platoon, etc.

If you're shore duty bound in a hospital or clinic, you need to do more than any one else and do it willingly(Navy Ball committee, MWR, assist ED and TRNG with classes, Teach PO INDOC etc. )

THATS HOW YOU GET NOTICED AND HOW YOU GET EVALS WORTH A DAMN.

You can still make rate with out a stellar eval but you beter know your junk solid!

I did well with a slightly above avg eval, (PRT score was a killer). I knew nearly every single answer on the test. I fired it up and smoked it for HM1.

[puckmedic]

PS WARFARE PIN!!!!! Don't DELAY . One of my high lights was finally getting my wings. I decided I was going to be selfish and concentrate on that alone. I took care of my squadron stuf then hopped around the hanger asking for signatures (after I studied that seciton of course).

I got 2 wrong answers out of 211 questions on my oral board and one out of the 100 written ( I think 100 written correct me if I'm wrong).

Of the 209 I got right only one required me to be led down the path so to speak. I popped answers out quick and confident. I was told I did better than nearly all the others before me and they were all guys with in "A" in their rates like AD AW, AM, AO etc.

[8404]

This is the same advice given my son, by his senior Petty Officer's, when he was a fresh new HA corpsman reporting in to 29 Palms, California. It's true and it works!

Great post puckmedic!

My son got involved in the, "(Navy Ball committee, MWR, assist ED and TRNG with classes, Teach PO INDOC etc.)" along with being the LPO for physical fitness and color guard. He became the "go to guy" for anything that was needed in the BAS or to the base.

The command looks at the three C's. What are you doing for the Command, College and the community.

He was in charge of the fund raising committee for the Navy Ball and was directly responsible for raising the most funds out of all the members of the committee.

For the community, he mentored and visited the institutionalized severely retarded children at a close by hospital.

He attended as many online and on base college courses as possible.

He was nominated for and selected to be a part of the former President's Gerald Ford's funeral, (California ceremonies).

Never turn down an assignment or a request for additional duties.

As a result, my son's last eval was a 4.46. Incredible isn't it.

Only you the servicemember has direct control over your eval and your advancement exam. Study, volunteer and become the go to guy.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

About half the questions on Advancement Exams cover general military requirements and are NOT rate specific.

That means that a HM may study for half the test with just about anyone around them and they do not need to find another HM to partner with.

That also means that all LPO's interested in getting their people promoted could ask a BMR-to-MRCPO question or two during muster each day to assist with the cranial inflow of knowledge.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

(excerpts)
http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=30633
CNO: New Final Multiple Formula Sharpens Competition for Advancement
Story Number: NNS070717-19
Release Date: 7/17/2007

For Sailors taking the E-4 and E-5 rating exams, PMA points will rise from 36 to 43 percent of the FMS. For those taking the E-6 rating exam, PMA points will also get a seven percent boost to nearly half of the FMS at 48.5 percent.

Exam scores will also be given more consideration. For E-4 and E-5 test takers, exam scores will count for 38 percent and 33.5 percent for E-6’s.

Though all medals still offer advancement points, Mullen also said individual augmentee tours will be calculated into the FMS.

“Two points were added to the awards factor of the FMS after completing greater than 90 consecutive days in Iraq, Afghanistan, Horn of Africa, Kuwait, Gitmo, Joint Task Force 515, or Joint Force Special Task Force Philippines,” he said.

Sailors will receive a boost in award points to five percent of their FMS.

[coastie16]

I was curious....how do you guys compete for advancement??

In the Coast Guard we take an exam called a Servicewide, its given in November and May (May only for those competing for E-7 and above), then they take your raw score, which is how many you had correct out of 150, then you recieve a final multiple, which comes from Time in Service, Sea Time, Awards, Time In Rate, and Marks.


But to even be elgible to take the Service Wide for us we have to complete our Practical Factors for the next pay grade (HS2 pracs would include Independant Duty Tasks, ect.) a medical officer has to sign them off, then you can take your End Of Course Test for your rate. (HS2, HS1, ect.), then you have to take another exam, and practical factors on Military Knowledge, and History. Once you do all of this by a given deadline the Yeoman enter it in the system and you are elgible to sit for the Servicewide.


Once the Servicewide is taken, we recieve an Advancement Elgibility List which shows everyone who took the test, and it is ranked based on the final multiple, this is where sea time, time in really counts........so the further up you are the better the chances of advancing . The next thing that comes out is an Advancement Cut Off. If you are above it, you are guarenteed advancement! if not....try again.

Is this how you guys do it??? (Navy) or similar???

I am # 11 right now on the HS1 Elg List....I am awaiting cuts.......usually they make about 15 HS1's if we are having a good year. Keeping my fingers crossed!

Thanks in advance for the info! That is something I always wondered.....

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

2005 Navy Enlisted Advancement System (NEAS) Brief
http://www-nmcp.med.navy.mil/HMTraining/PDF/NEAS_050208.pdf

This brief is two years old and a few things have changed so is not 100% correct, but it is more than close enough to tell you how the Navy system works. A recent change, for instance, on 23 July 2007 NAVADMIN 183/07 changed the algorthm used to calculate the FMS for E4-E6

The Navy previously had "Practical Factors" (we called them Personnel Advancement Requirements (PAR's)) but that requirement and several others were eliminated in 2000. The CO's recommendation for advancement must be based on the command being satisfied that the individual has the necessary skills and abilities to perform properly at the next higher paygrade.

The Navy also had a "Military Knowledge and History" exam to gain eligibility for the Advancement Exam; however that requirement was incorporated into the Advancement Exam itself. The "Military Knowledge and History" material is still covered by it is all done in one test now. Our exam now consists of 200 questions. The percentage of rating specific questions versus Professional Military Knowledge (PMK) questions is determined by paygrade.

The Navy has administrative processes similar to your "Advancement Elgibility List" and "Advancement Cut Off" but it is all done behind the scenes and it is not widely distributed. Basically only one list is published -- who made it.

[ThomasPII]

usually they make about 15 HS1's if we are having a good year. Keeping my fingers crossed!


15 HS1's Coast Guard wide? How many HS2's are out there? Man if it's anything like the Navy that is pretty tight to make. And here I thought we had it bad.

[MAWDoc]

This is the same advice given my son, by his senior Petty Officer's, when he was a fresh new HA corpsman reporting in to 29 Palms, California. It's true and it works! ...As a result, my son's last eval was a 4.46. Incredible isn't it.

All good stuff...

a 4.46 is an impossible trait average, though, and WAY TOO HIGH for an E2.

There are 7 traits that are graded on an E1-E6 Performance Evaluation. On E-3 and below, "Leadership" is an optional grade, and may be "NOB: Not Observed."

That being said, the highest PMA attainable is a 5.00, almost never awarded (not seriously, anyway, and certainly isn't looked at seriously), and they progress downward with each individual trait 4.0, as follows:

7 5.0's = 5.00 PMA
6 5.0's = 4.86
5 5.0's = 4.71
4 5.0's = 4.57
3 5.0's = 4.43
2 5.0's = 4.29
1 5.0 = 4.14 (which is an EXCEPTIONALLY HIGH PMA for an E2)

with NOB in leadership (very likely the case for a HA)

6 5.0's = 5.00 PMA
5 5.0's = 4.86
4 5.0's = 4.71
3 5.0's = 4.57
2 5.0's = 4.33
1 5.0 = 4.17

A 4.43 is an EXTREMELY HIGH PMA for an HM1, and typically, he'd better have performed three witnessed miracles to get it, unless he's transferring and the CO grades high anyway.

It sounds like he is an outstanding Sailor, and is always pushing himself to do more, and I'd love to have him working for me. He'll go far, but should probably expect some lower PMAs (which are really, irrelevant when it comes to advancement anyway). He could be a 3.57, and as long as he has "Early Promote" on the bottom as his advancement recommendation, he will get the most points toward advancement. Yes...you can be a 3.00 early promote, and you can be a 5.00 early promote. Similarly, you can be a 4.29 must promote. So, the PMA is not the factor for advancement, the recommendation is. But I would doubt that a 4.4...is anything but EP.

I do enjoy those Sailors who are always pushing the envelope and trying to do more, and love to see it in my Sailors. I grade high, comparatively, and will typically never give an E2 or E3 higher than a 4.0 or 4.14. It's not fair to them to be given so high a grade and think that so early on in their career they have "mastered the game" so to speak. It only opens up the door for a big fall when they are evaluated appropriately, and then comes self doubt. Like a straight A student in middle school who gets into academic classes in high school and starts pulling a couple Bs with the tougher workload... no where to go but down, with so far to go...

I mean no disrespect, and merely wished to provide some leadership/managerial/administrative insight into the process. The answer is that if you are relied upon, and can always be counted on to do your job well, AND can fit in the extra stuff, you will succeed. Period. One of my chiefs said that there is no such thing as a missed opportunity...SOMEONE will take advantage of it...shouldn't it be you? Sounds like your son is already a master of this philosophy, and will do well, no doubt.

R/
Chief

[8404]

None taken Chief;

His 4.43 was earned as an HM3. Yes, I agree it is a high evaluation, but he did walk on water, (so to speak) at 29 Palms. Also doing equally well at Advanced Radiology school. He arrived at 29 Palms as an E2 and left as an HM3.