A Reservist's question about HM - HMDT

[Corpsman77]

Hey everyone. I recent went through MEPS, etc (about 2 months ago) and chose HM. In fact, I argued for it. I didn't want to be a builder, etc. In any case, I got it -- just had to wait until 1/10/07 to ship. Ok, no problem.

Called last week 24 hours after my 2nd DEP recruiting meeting and was told there was a slot available at the end of this month. I took it. Sweet...

Now, when I go in, I see my code changed. Instead of HM 8404, I'm now HMDT 8707. I read about the merger prior so I wasn't surprised in the least.

So, with the new 8707 will I still be able to serve in a Marine unit if I attempt to volunteer (I am a Reservist) to one? In my contract, I still have the FMF C school. Am I good to go still or is there a sucker punch about to come my way?


Thanks!

[Da-Chief]

Your NPSB ?? (Non Prior Service Basic) with a 20,000 bonus?
Let me know..

Da-Chief

[Corpsman77]

Correct. I am Non-prior with the $20K bonus.

[Da-Chief]

Well shipmate you will only be the 2nd one who is in the dental strand. You only carry this NEC until you are E-5 then you lose it. Your first tour is indeed with dental and you will not be assigned to a Marine unit but probably with a fleet hospital or something like that, after your first tour if you study for adavancement and make E-5 like I know you will, You then transfer to a Marine unit if that is what you want.

Now is the time to bitch with your rectruiter if you want to be with the Marines. I know they need 8404's..

BTW, you will have both Nec's the dental as well as the 8404. We are all under one big happy umbrella now.

V/R
Da-Chief

[Corpsman77]

I knew it. You know that really pisses me off. Well, I'm going in as an E-2, so I guess I'll have the time for studying.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I am not a Subject Matter Expert (SME) on the whole HM/DT merger and what it all means to the FNG who just signed a contract. Being at Great Lakes, Da-Chief likely has some gouge I am unaware of sogo talk to your recruiter. Having said all that, here are my two cents and a card you might play when you finish training and report to your NOSC for unit assignment as a SelRes:


To quote BUPERSINST 1001.39E
403. Affiliation with the Selected Reserve.
4. Billet Assignment. Navy Reservists will be assigned per unit manning priorities to mobilization billets which match their rating, paygrade, and, if applicable, specialized skills such as NEC codes. Assign all HM’s with NEC HM-8404 and DT’s with NEC DT-8707 who reside within a reasonable commuting distance of a Navy Reserve unit in support of the U.S. Marine Corps to that unit if a local billet exists per COMNAVRESFORINST 1001.5D, chapter 2. See section 405.2b(1) for definition of reasonable commuting distance.


http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/NEC/HM.htm
HM-8707 Field Service Dental Technician
Assists dental officer in providing dental treatment in the field. Provides technical and administrative assistance to support the mission and functions of Navy and Marine Corps field units. (Personnel Paygrades: E3-E9)


With 8707 it is likely you will be assigned to a Field Hosp, but since the recent merger I know FMF line units are interviewing motivated DT's to fill 8404 slots. Ultimately the "needs of the Navy" will determine your assignment but if you do well during training, stay motivated, and seek the position you desire in a steady professional manner then you will likely convince the Navy they "need" you in that position.

[Da-Chief]

I have to agree with HMC, I can't speak for what you are going to have at your NOSC, but the short of it is you are going to be trained in 2 very critical fields right now for HM.

By what I am getting from NOLA, there is still a good chance you can get the FMF slot, hell in your down time you can do exams..

;-)
Later

Da-Chief

[Corpsman77]

It's all I want to do. I want to get on the battlefield and do what I can to bring the troops home.

I'm not in the best shape (I'm a little older), but I'll be damned if I don't give 100% out there. I'm too stubborn/competitive not to.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

For whatever reason, a lot of SelRes Devil Doc's seem to be close to twice the age of the Devil Dogs they take care of. Being a "little older" gives you an advantage in my book.

However, being out of shape is a major No-Go. With fifteen years on the green side, one thing I pound into all my Corpsmen is that THE DOC IS NOT ALLOWED TO DROP! When the Doc goes down, he screws himself and all the Marines who are relying on him to keep them healthy. Corpsmen are an asset, not a liability. Not only are you expected to hold your own during the hump, but when the column stops, you don't get to rest until you have checked on all your Marines and taken care of their ailments.

Candidates should familiarize themselves with Marine Corps Order P6100.12 and start training now. Forget the minimums too! Your goal should be a 1st Class USMC PFT for your age group (Table 2-2) and be well within the height/weight standard. You should also be able to pass the USMC swim qual with ease (CSW2 minimum, see MCO 1510.125).

When you get on the battlefield, your life and the life of your Marines could very well depend on how you trained and how you studied. School time is not playtime and physical training is a must.

(Recruits: Remember, this is a marathon. Don't injure yourself or go overboard and forget the fitness gimmicks)

[Da-Chief]

Damn HMC, Are we related?? I convey this every day to my Younger doc's at school, I try to explain that we HM's have to be in even better shape then the Marines we take care of.

I told em you will do 20-25 mile humps and when they call time for a break this is where the doc gets busy, By the time you are done yelling at everyone to "drink" and "WHAT COLOR IS YOUR PEE?" then checking feet, it is now time to move out again.

I didn't allow "ANYONE" to ride.. they had to be out with thier Marines, me included, this drove some of my fellow HMC's nuts as if one HMC was putting out they didn't want to be singled out to our "Dog's" as soft..(Grin).

Unfortunately for me now those days are over as I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis and am now Hpo-Thyroid, 23 years of this have takin a toll on the old body.

Thanks!
Da-Chief

[Corpsman77]

I should be more specific. I believe I am within the standards for any service. I'm 29 years olds and 69 inches, 167 pounds, but I've just had a sedentary civilian life -- too many desk jobs in the IT world.

[Da-Chief]

Grin,

The good thing about our rate, we "WILL" get you into shape before you leave.. If I were you I were you and your concerned, When you get to HM "A" School, see if you can join the "DIVE MOTIVATOR" program for PT Puroposes, I "PROMISE" you if you can hang with HMC Bayless and HMC Delaroca's Group, you will have "NO" problem with Marine PT. Also a FYI if you are interested in Marine "RECON" for the reserves you need to be in the Dive Motivator program anyways same with other special programs and the reserve have a number of them for the Marines, Let me know if your interested as I can make a call to MARFORRES next week and talk to the CMDCM there and see what his up..

Thanks!
Da-Chief

[Corpsman77]

I'd love to do that sort of thing, however I had to get a waiver for some things in the past, so I won't even bother with the security clearances right now.

Suffice it to say, I was a dumb kid, and made a mistake as an adult, as well. I've worked hard to overcome my past.

[Corpsman77]

Hey I've got another question, as well. I've read the Marines have developed their own combatives course and belt system. Will I as a FMF HM be taking some of those courses?

[Da-Chief]

When you area assigned to you unit you will get into the martial Arts Class. I myself did this. Prepare to be "SORE"...

;-)

Better to feel pain if you don't your dead..

Da-Chief

[0311_DoC]

Corpsman77 wrote: Hey I've got another question, as well. I've read the Marines have developed their own combatives course and belt system. Will I as a FMF HM be taking some of those courses?


I was sent to the MCMAP MAI course a few years back and received an MOS of 8551. As far as Iknow you dont have to get your belt as a Corpsman on the green side. You will be respected more if you do. The Marines are expected to get there tan belt in boot. in order to make NCO they have to have at least a grey belt if not Green. As time goes on they are expected progress up the belt system. But if the course is ran to MCO specs,expect to be hurtin', it is very physical and demanding. When I went thru the instructors course it was one of the hardest things I ever did. But also remember, the Marines are not supposed totrain with out a safety/non participatingcorpsman there, so make sure if you participate in a MCMAP course you are not the only Doc there.

[Corpsman77]

Excellent news. I will definitely be hitting that course up. I can guarantee I will excel in it.

[bsmith35]

Corpsman 77,

I saw in your original post you got NEC FMF School in your contract. Are you talking about FMSS - 8404? If so, how did you get it? My recruiter keeps telling me that I cannot get that in my contract. Any ino would be appreciated!

PS sorry for going off topic.

[Corpsman77]

Bsmith35,


Yes, FMF school is listed in my contract for the NC location. Umm.. when I was at MEPS and speaking to the job counselor, I just told them what I wanted. The guy seemed pretty eager to give me what I wanted. I assumed it was because the Marines needed Corpsman.

[Da-Chief]

bsmith,

He is going NPSB which is a "RESERVE" program, you are looking most likely for a "ACTIVE" program. The Reserves are hurtin for program 9 personnel hence the reason he is guarunteed it and also gets a 20,000 lump sum bonus if he makes it through school.

Later

Da-Chief.

[Corpsman77]

Da-Chief wrote: bsmith,

He is going NPSB which is a "RESERVE" program, you are looking most likely for a "ACTIVE" program. The Reserves are hurtin for program 9 personnel hence the reason he is guarunteed it and also gets a 20,000 lump sum bonus when he makes it through school.

Later

Da-Chief.



I fixed that for you, Chief. :)

[bsmith35]

Da-Chief wrote: bsmith,

He is going NPSB which is a "RESERVE" program, you are looking most likely for a "ACTIVE" program. The Reserves are hurtin for program 9 personnel hence the reason he is guarunteed it and also gets a 20,000 lump sum bonus if he makes it through school.

Later

Da-Chief.


Chief,

I am also going in as NPSB with $20K. I have taken the ASVAB and scored an 81. I am within the height/weight requirements, but the only problem is a tattoo. I have one more session to have it removed on 20061021. After that I'm good to go. What do I need to ask for to get it? Program 9? Thanks.

BSmith

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Corpsman77 wrote: I should be more specific. I believe I am within the standards for any service. I'm 29 years olds and 69 inches, 167 pounds, but I've just had a sedentary civilian life -- too many desk jobs in the IT world.

Your minimum target fitness goal as a FMF Corpsman should be:
[x] Within USMC height/weight standards per MCO P6100.12-check point met.
[] Exceed USMC 1st Class PFT for your age group per MCO P6100.12 -status?
[] Exceed USMC CSW2 swim qual per MCO 1510.125 -status?

If you are not at that minimum fitness goal right now, then start training to get there right now. If you are not there right now, then "I" (me personally) consider you out of shape and that is a No-Go for my Corpsmen. When you train, keep in mind that this is a marathon. Your Navy career could last 20+ years and you only have one body to use for the next 50-or-so years of life, so take care of it. Don't injure yourself or go overboard and forget the fitness gimmicks. You sweat in training to avoid bleeding in combat, but you won't do yourself or your Marines any good if you hurt yourself in the gym or on the track.

[0311_DoC]

Very well said Chief.....

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

bsmith35 wrote: I saw in your original post you got NEC FMF School in your contract. Are you talking about FMSS - 8404? If so, how did you get it? My recruiter keeps telling me that I cannot get that in my contract. Any ino would be appreciated!

Things change, but when I enlisted I was able to negotiate when & where I went to training and had it in my contract -- including that my first assignment would be with a Marine Corps unit.

Ask your Recruiter why it is not available. I could be the deal you worked out for your current bonus has you participating in another program that makes you ineligible for FMSS right now.It could be you already inked a deal and asking the Recruiter to change the terms simple doubles his workload without giving him any benefit (Why go through the extra work of canceling one contract to renegotiate a new one, just to re-sign the same guy? What's in it for him?) It could be that the Recruiter is simply not familiar with how to do it.

There are a million reasons why he might be saying "no". If it is something you really want, then it is your job to research the facts and make it happen. Start by asking your Recruiter to explain why he is saying no, then call a Recruiter in another city to get a second opinion and use your brain-housing-group to negotiate the best deal.

Read my Advice for Enlistment & ReEnlistment (http://www.corpsman.com/wowbb/view_topic.php?id=60&forum_id=2)post for additional comments

[Corpsman77]

Well, I just did my Navy PFT

I did as follows:

62 situps
51 pushups
1.5 mile run was 13:21

I believe that would even qualify me for your Marine standards. :) I'll be working on my run time more than anything, though. I'd like to get to 12 minutes by the time I'm done with Basic.

[0311_DoC]

Corpsman77 wrote: Well, I just did my Navy PFT

I did as follows:

62 situps
51 pushups
1.5 mile run was 13:21

I believe that would even qualify me for your Marine standards. :) I'll be working on my run time more than anything, though. I'd like to get to 12 minutes by the time I'm done with Basic.




Just so you know you are going to becompeting with Marines that do the Marine CorpsPFT 3.0 mile run in 18 - 19 mins. bust out 90 - 100 crunches and do between 16-20 pullups for a 1st class PFT.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Corpsman77 wrote: I believe that would even qualify me for your Marine standards.

Okay, two things here.
(1) A track wizard that performs well on an athletic test cannot always perform as well when it comes to humping a 60lb pack for 5 miles a day, all week long. The opposite is also true that masters of the field might perform poorly on standardized athletic test. However, athletic testing is the system the military uses to measure fitness.
(2) Per the Navy's athletic test, you exceed the minimum fitness qualifications for enlistment and retention in the Navy.

Per Enclosure 7 of OPNAVINST 6110.1H, your Navy PRT score is rated at "GOOD - Performance better than or equal to the lowest 25 percent". Furthermore, your overall average is 63.3 points, which equates to Category Level of GOOD-LOW, the bottom of the lowest 25 percent.

If you had looked up MCO P6100.12, you would know that your PRT does not qualify for the Marine standard because their tests are different. However, if I take your sit-up numbers, double your run time to match their 3 mile test (giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't slow down after 1.5 miles) and assume you would perform chin-ups at about the same level as the other two events (between 51 & 47 points) then that score would give you an age adjusted USMC 3rd Class PFT, well below the 1st Class standard I recommended you train for and ignores the CSW2 swim qual.

I do not want to get in a personal pissing contest but I'm not sure if you are getting my point. You may be in better shape than most of your buddies your age and I do not want to take anything away from you. Your current level of fitness is a nice starting point, but it is just that -- a starting point. A passing Navy PRT score is a minimum performance level that is fine for flying a desk, but you will need much more to be an asset to the Marines. If you are satisfied with minimums and being in "the lowest 25 percent" then go ahead and make GOOD-LOW your stopping point, but that is a No-Go in my book and I would turn you away if you interviewed to join my unit.

Here are the numbers to max out a USMC PFT:
() 100 crunches in 2 min
() 20 dead hang pull-ups
() 3 mile run in 18:00 min

Being able to hump a pack is just the beginning. Once you reach the intended destination, everyone drops packs and then the real fitness test begins when the bullets start to fly. This fitness test doesn't stop at the end of 1.5 miles or 14:00 minutes. It could go on for days and all you may get is hot plastic tasting water, 1 MRE and a few minutes rest in between tests. Combat is the fitness standard you need to train and prepare for, not just passing the Navy PRT or Marine PFT.

I appreciate your desire to serve and motivation to be an FMF Corpsman with the Marines. A word of advice: study hard, train hard, and don’t settle for minimums. I know you have plans to get in better shape and lots of training in front of you. I truly wish you the best and hope you have an outstanding career.

[Da-Chief]

Once again.. uh-rah..

Thanks

Da-Chief..

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Corpsman77 wrote: I'd love to do that sort of thing, however I had to get a waiver for some things in the past, so I won't even bother with the security clearances right now.

Do not ever knock yourself out a program you want without at least asking about eligibility and interviewing for a try out!

Let's just say there are plenty of individuals with security clearances who have required waivers for the dumb things they did as a kid. You will certainly fail if you never try, but you might succeed when you make the attempt. The better you do and the more you impress them, the more likely they are to take a chance on you and interpret the rules in a more positive light.

[Da-Chief]

Corpsman77 wrote: I'd love to do that sort of thing, however I had to get a waiver for some things in the past, so I won't even bother with the security clearances right now.



Also if you look at our requirements with waivers etc.. It asks if you have been in trouble in the last 24 months.. If your clear of that for FMF duty etc.. then your set.. As far as security clearances.. Like HMC Said this is what the word "WAIVER" was created for. The Navy see's through the crap for the most part..

Later

Da-Chief.

[Corpsman77]

How do the Marines do the pull ups? I know there is no more KIP allowed. What kind of grip is permitted?

I don't have a bar, but I could run down to the school nearby and use the monkey bars for pull up practice.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Corpsman77 wrote: How do the Marines do the pull ups?

This sounds like a self-development exercise. Learning how to locate and read the instructions tends to do wonders for your career and puts you ahead of your peers.

I have cited the reference above so you can research it yourself and learn where to start looking for answers instead of always running to the LPO/CPO with questions. Its not that we don't like helping, but we also want to develop self sufficiency so you guys can replace us. If you always ask for help without ever trying to research it on your own first, then we start to think you need to be "spoon fed" everything and are not capable of doing simple things on your own.

Within this thread are key terms and specific reference citations that will allow you to locate the answer to your question with a simple internet search. To make things even easier I will tell you the answer is in Section 2101. As an extra bonus, the cited document will give you all sorts of fitness tips and additional information you can use during your career.

In fact, if you could reply back with the URL (internet address) for the USMC "Orders and Directives" page or "Publications Electronic Library", then the rest of the forum could benefit from your research.

[Corpsman77]

This will be my last post. Thank you for your time.

[0311_DoC]

Man, I hope that was a sincere goodbye and not a nasty one ..... :shock: