Navy HM testifies about involvement in an Iraqi slaying

[Poolzer]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-10-06-iraq-marines_x.htm?csp=24

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) — A slight, soft-spoken Navy corpsman testified Friday that Marines in his patrol seized an Iraqi civilian from his home, threw him into a hole and put at least 10 bullets in his head and chest after growing frustrated in their search for an insurgent.
Petty Officer 3rd Class Melson J. Bacos said he saw a Marine put fingerprints from the victim onto a rifle and on a shovel to implicate him as an insurgent.

"I was shocked and I felt sick to my stomach," Bacos said.

Bacos, a medic who had been on patrol with the squad, was charged along with seven Marines in the slaying of Hashim Ibrahim Awad last spring in the town of Hamdania.

But Bacos, 21, struck a deal with prosecutors under which he pleaded guilty to kidnapping and conspiracy and agreed to testify Friday at his court-martial and during upcoming proceedings about what he saw.

Military judge Col. Steven Folsom sentenced Bacos to 10 years in prison but reduced the term to one year because of the plea agreement. That will be further reduced by time served.

A reduction in rank and a dishonorable discharge also were suspended because of the deal approved by the military authority that convened the court-martial.

In return for Bacos' testimony, other counts of murder, kidnapping and conspiracy were dropped.

"Why didn't I just walk away?" Bacos asked before being sentenced. "The answer to that question was I wanted to be part of the team. I wanted to be a respected corpman, but that is no excuse for immorality."

Prosecutor Capt. Nicholas Gannon said, "We are in Iraq to protect Iraqis and that fact makes this case more tragic and more criminal."

Bacos said he asked the Marines to let Awad go, but Cpl. Marshall L. Magincalda told him in crude terms that he was being weak and should stop protesting.

"I knew what we were doing was wrong," Bacos testified, speaking nearly in a whisper. "I tried to say something and then I decided to look away."

Bacos was the first of the servicemen to be court-martialed. The seven others could get up to life in prison.

Prosecutors have said the servicemen killed Awad out of frustration and then planted the assault rifle and shovel by the body to make it look as if he had been caught digging a hole for a roadside bomb.

Bacos testified that the squad entered Hamdania on April 26 while searching for a known insurgent who had been captured three times, then released. Squad leader Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins was "just mad that we kept letting him go and he was a known terrorist," Bacos said.

The group approached a house where the insurgent was believed to be hiding, but when someone inside woke up, the Marines instead went to another home and grabbed Awad, a former policeman, according to the testimony.

Bacos said the squad had intended to get someone else if they did not capture the insurgent, then stage a firefight to make it appear they had found an Iraqi planting a roadside bomb.

Awad, 52, was taken from the home with his feet and hands bound, then placed in a hole, Bacos said.

"I felt I couldn't stop it any more that day," Bacos testified. "They were going to do it. They were going to carry out the plan, so I continued on."

Bacos said Hutchins fired three rounds into the man's head after checking to see if he was dead, then Cpl. Trent Thomas fired seven to 10 more rounds into his chest.

After the killing, Bacos said Hutchins called in to a command center and reported the squad had seen a man digging a hole and wanted permission to fire at him.

Bacos said he saw Lance Cpl. Robert B. Pennington put the victim's fingerprints onto an AK-47 and on a shovel to implicate him as an insurgent who had fired first. Bacos was told to fire an AK-47 into the air to simulate the sound of a firefight.

After the killing, Bacos said, he was standing in the road when another Navy corpsman drove by.

"He asked me what happened, and I was very vague," Bacos testified. "I said, 'I want you to remember something. We're different. We're not like these men.'"

Bacos' wife and father sat in the front row of the courtroom during the court-martial. During a break, Bacos turned to her and mouthed the words, "I love you."

The tiny courtroom was still as Folsom repeatedly asked Bacos if he had been coerced into giving his account of the shooting.

Bacos said he was testifying voluntarily. He wore a white Navy uniform and a Purple Heart his wife said he had been awarded during a previous tour in Iraq.

Bacos was recently transferred from Camp Pendleton, where the Marines have been held, to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar for his own safety.

Military prosecutors had charged Bacos under the theory that he did nothing to stop the alleged crime.

Along with Magincalda, Hutchins, Thomas and Pennington, the other Marines charged are: Lance Cpl. Tyler A. Jackson, Pfc. John J. Jodka and Lance Cpl. Jerry E. Shumate Jr.

David Brahms, Pennington's lawyer, said Bacos' account will be subjected to intense scrutiny. "This is just one guy who is going to tell the story as he sees it," Brahms said.

Former Army prosecutor Tom Umberg suggested that others might follow Bacos' lead and strike similar plea bargains.

"You don't want to be the last guy standing. The first guy gets the best deal," he said.

After the proceedings, Bacos carried his 18-month-old daughter from the courthouse and turned her over to his wife before facing the media. He said he deeply regrets what happened in Hamdania.

"Hopefully, that family will forgive us for what we have done," he said.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Posted 10/6/2006 4:07 PM ET
Updated 10/6/2006 9:49 PM ET

[Da-Chief]

This is a "SAD" day for the Hospital and the Marine Corps.. I could not believe this crap.

Nuff Said..

Da-Chief.

[Corpsman77Wife]

I am appalled by this. I can't believe the HM didn't have the guts to step up to the plate and stop the Marines from killing an innocent man. There is enought blood being shed in this war that we don't need to be killing people who are doing no wrong but living there everyday life in Iraq. I could see if they guy was trying to shoot at them and they had to defend there lives, that would be another story. But in the end I do give the HM credit for stepping up and telling the story of what happened. Maybe I don't quite understand what you all do and see on a daily base when you are out there defending our country due to me not being in the military service just a supporter of my husband. But I do know that it isn't right for an innocent man to lose his life. I hope all those Marines get what they desever and not just a slap on the wrist.

[0311_DoC]

Corpsman77Wife wrote: I am appalled by this. I can't believe the HM didn't have the guts to step up to the plate and stop the Marines from killing an innocent man. There is enought blood being shed in this war that we don't need to be killing people who are doing no wrong but living there everyday life in Iraq. I could see if they guy was trying to shoot at them and they had to defend there lives, that would be another story. But in the end I do give the HM credit for stepping up and telling the story of what happened. Maybe I don't quite understand what you all do and see on a daily base when you are out there defending our country due to me not being in the military service just a supporter of my husband. But I do know that it isn't right for an innocent man to lose his life. I hope all those Marines get what they desever and not just a slap on the wrist.
Well the way I hear it, he was against it. But was threatened to catch friendly fire if he didnt play along. Source also states the Marines have pretty much admitted that, they threatened him......

[puckmedic]

He should have gone and reported it upon returning to the compound. He waited and hid it until it became a court case, then he sniveled up.

He may have been an unwilling party to this via threats and intimidations, however, he made a choice to remain in conspirator mode after the fact, when he did indeed have opportunity to report it.

Far as I'm concerned he's a felon, just as much as they are. Everything they did good in their lives up til then ceases to matter.

He was unjustified in keeping it quiet, his integrity in this matter was absent. His courage was non existent and there is no honor in conspiracy. His committment to his own code of ethics disinegrated under threats.

Way to go skippy, a big black eye on all of us. The bunch of ya should get the freaking chair, not some plea bargan and the right to wear MY uniform or MY rating insignia. MFP ( Mother F---er Please)!! SON OF A , excuse me while I go puke. :X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X :X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X:X

[Da-Chief]

<patting Puckmedic on the shoulder> Lets go get a beer man..

And they walked off into the sunset.......









NOT!!!!

Look I hope some of you newbies out there read this and learn from it.. I was actually ill reading this..

I suppose this is where you really have to remember you are a part of the NAVY CORPSMAN Team above all else. While we are (Well sorta) combatants now.. Some of us get it in our head that we are MARINES.. We are not... I believe we have to train as they do as we have to keep up, but never lose sight of our CORE VALUES as Navy Hospital Corpsman.. HONOR, COURAGE, and COMMITTMENT..

Some of you may say he was coerced.. We have a wall of heroes here at Corps School of those who gave their all for their fellow Marines and Shipmates.. I would have been sad if he would have gave his all standing up to these M$%$)( %$*)($%*)$'s but it still would have been like his ancestors in the Hospital Corps..



I don't know. I am still in Shock..

Bowing my head in shame..

Da-Chief..

[puckmedic]

While I understand all too well how coersion works (Games Inmates Play was an exceptional class we had and one I love to review daily). I also know there are ways to combat it.

If I had six Marines telling me they would kill me if I did not go along, I know six marines who would be dead. plain and simple. I would assume he was armed. Nobody threatens me when I am unarmed, so I can imagine I would shoot first then worry later.



Chief no need to be ashamed, you didn't do this. You certainly never taught any one to do this. all involved crosed a line, all should get more than they will.

These guys shouldn't be allowed to wear any ribons medals etc or even rank. Put them in convict clothes and let them get used to it. The former Corpsman gets a plea bargain? Can I be there when he's released so I can just look at him and ask "Dip shit, what were you thinking? "

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Rather than allow a situation or mindset to go unchallenged until it explodes into a life & death incident, Corpsmen and Leaders need to be proactive in searching out aberrant behavior and addressing it properly. There were signs and symptoms present that something was not right with these individuals long before this specific incident took place. If a warrior is developing a condition where he is becoming a threat to himself or others, you need to address it. The warrior may need training, he may need counseling, he may need discipline, or he may need treatment. It is your job and duty as both a Corpsmen and a member of the Armed Forces to identify and address these matters regardless of who that person is.

When my fingers first hit the keyboard I went into a merciless rage against these murderers. But, at some point I took a breath and said "what if..." and I have beenpondering it ever since.

Make no mistake, these cowardly idiots are murderers and they have signed the death warrants for an untold number of Americans who will be killed in retaliation for that murder. I am truly sickened by the actions of these individuals. Not just a mental disgust, but queasiness in my stomach and an overall sense that I can't convey with words. I am sick not only at what has been done, but also for what could have been done and what is yet to come.

Not to provide a defense for these eight murderers, but combat stress, PTSD, and group dynamics take many different paths. While part of me wants to hammer them all unmercifully for the immeasurable harm they have done regardless of their excuses or any possible justification, I also know I shouldn't be so quick to paint with such broad strokes. At no point could I view these murderers as victims, but I can envision quite a few casualties within this scenario. Part of my quandary is that I just don't know who or when or if any of this might apply.

They are all culpable for the murder and the post incident cover-up, but beyond that....

...I just don’t know...


I believe the potential solution is still the same though. Corpsmen and Leaders must be proactive in searching out aberrant behavior and addressing it properly. People often talk about suicide before they do it. Well, guess what? People often talk about murder before they do that too. I don't care if the "Kill 'em All" mentality is attributed to combat stress, family separation anxiety, racism, exhaustion, frustration, or a psychopathic disorder -- in most cases there are obvious warning signs prior to a critical incident. The homicidal tendency should have been identified and the individual(s) should have been pulled from duty for evaluation.

Circumstances such as this also highlight the critical necessity for all Corpsmen to maintain an unimpeachable reputation and to know how to use their chain of command (COC). There WILL be times in your career when your reputation and the trust you have earned are the only things you have to convince the COC to take action. There WILL also be times when you have to go over someone's head or around someone's resistance in order to get the support that is needed and you need to know how to do it. Do not neglect these aspects of your training and development.

A Hospital Corpsman’s job is to take care of our warriors. Sometimes you will need to protect the patient from himself and sometimes you will need to call on outside support (COC, mental health, chaplain, DAPA, MP, etc.) to get him the help he needs before it is too late.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

This is all just another reminder, ladies & gentlemen, that our profession can require us to make some very important and very difficult life & death decisions.


Whilefar from a perfect fit, the article reminded me of the movie Casualties of War (1989).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097027/

[puckmedic]

True enough there. in this case who knows what warning signs were flashing? The Marines were never really good at filtering this stuff.

A pain is weakness not an injury,a guy being overly aggressive is a good warrior etc.

The HM, wanted to belong. Sounds like he was new to the unit. marines can be very overbearing and intimidating, I think they feed them something at MCRD.

It's possible that even if some one had said something about the mental status, that no one would have listened.

I know from my own experience, that they sure has hell didn't listen until, it was too late almost. Why would it have changed any in 13 years?

Still the HM3 after that incident became part of the conspiracy. I feel nothing for him and the others except utter contempt.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I don't wish to twist this into a discussion about semantics and definitions with this reply, but I would contend the members of that squad probably had more hate and blind rage than aggression.

My basic premise is that we need more brains and a culture of tactics, not killers.

Aggressively pursuing the enemy and purposefully charging into battle are components of what makes a good warrior. However, building alliances with neutral parties and fostering more positive relationships with nonviolent opposition groups are also components of what makes a good warrior.

Being frustrated with your circumstances, negatively stereotyping the population, blaming locals for your failures & enemy successes, maintaining ethnocentric beliefs of superiority, condemning indifferent masses for the hostilities of others, treating everyone as the enemy, asserting a 'hate 'em all, kill 'em all'� mentality, and cowardly attacking nonaligned civilians in an 'aggressive'� manner may make for a good Klansman, but it does not make for a good warrior.

Those are the signs and symptoms I am talking about: the deterioration from a disciplined professional soldier towards a cynical bigoted thug terrorizing and bullying whoever crosses his path.

Corpsmen and Leaders of all ranksneed to identify and address this among the men early on or a cultural shift will occur within the unit that will guarantee a failure of the mission. I recognize that the difficulty of this task increases exponentially the higher the rank of the offender, but that does not mean we do not employ both formal and informal channels to negate the destructive influences of ignorance and bigotry.

[DocHoop]

I have said tothe Marines I've served with "you guys are paid to kill, I am paid to heal"I think I say it mostly to remind myself I amnotone ofthem, that I am different. Yet, at the same timeyou do everything they do, and then some. You do the humps, the p.t., the MCMAP, and field ops all with your Marines to garner their respect. Just try treating a broke Marine without going through all that. Believe me, your SOL. My money says that guy won't even let you touch him. When you go through all these workups prior to deployment,"Doc" sometimes gets pushed through and treatedlike the rest. That is untilanillness or injury and we do our thing. Otherwise we train like them, anddiscipline instilled in us like them.Discipline, as simply as I can put it, is following orders without question, or the results may be harm to yourself or your team. My point is, going through all that, what could have HM3 Bacos done? What could he have done differently that would have changed the result of what actually happened? Yes, if it comes to medical issues his say would have morevalue. But I knowwhen it comes to all other matters in a combat enviroment, "Doc" is assumed to mind his own buisness. He does what his squad or platoon leader asks of him.Unless you are putin that position, you can't say"I would do this..." Whether or not he wanted to stop those Marines,he had 7 of themagainst him. Marines do repect rank,yetthat Doc couldn't even use that.From what it sounded like it was afew CPL's and someLCPL's.HM3 and CPL is not equal in agrunts eyes. I am notsaying that DOC was right. I'm just not ready to sacrifice him. Iempathize with what he has gone through.It justseems to mehe is the only one out of the8 involved being persecuted for what heDIDN'T do. I am also saying there is a reason why the Marine Corps does not have its ownDoc's, and the Navy providesthem with such. I believe that reason through myexperience is to act as the conscienceof the smaller unit.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Just as Corpsmen are required to apply their trade skillfully or people will needlessly die, the Marines are also required to apply their trade skillfully or people will needlessly die. Corpsmen and Marines both need to know the indications and contraindications for every shot to be administered. Clearly, violating the Rules of Engagement in order to murder unarmed innocuous civilians is contraindicated.

I am not attacking the author of the above post, but I do wish to address several assertions in the opinion provided. I recognize that this might be seen as a tough spot and I know that life is not fair, but physical courage is not enough. When the chips are down you need to have the moral courage to do the right thing. Preventing the crisis or having that moral courage makes things much easier.


WHAT COULD POS BACOS HAVE DONE?
Upon observing symptoms of the “hate ‘em all, kill ‘em all� mentality Bacos could have acted “as the conscience of the smaller unit� and begun talking to the offending individual(s) and other members of the team to remind them that very few Iraqis are hostile to Americans and that most are not. If Marines start treating everyone like crap then pretty soon everyone will have a reason to kill Marines. The OIF mission will not succeed without the support of the Iraqi people. The United States will lose the GWOT if we make everyone our enemy. The American public will be protesting in the streets when they see Marines abusing people and maliciously destroying homes.

If keeping it within the team isn’t working to fix the problem, then it is time to either officially or unofficially start bringing it to other people’s attention until it does get fixed. POS Bacos could have been proactive and informed his LPO, PltSgt, PltCdr, SgtMaj, Chaplain, XO, CO, JAG, IG (etc.) that several Marines appeared to be exhibiting symptoms of combat stress and should be evaluated or at least counseled to ensure they still had the big picture in mind.

Those preventive measures would have probably kept POS Bacos out of the life & death crisis he found himself in. Had the issue been addressed when it was just a bad attitude the crisis likely never would have occurred. At the very least, it would send the clear signal that the rogues can’t do that crap when he is around

When confronted with the crisis he could have told POS Hutchins and POS Magincalda to F-off and that he was not going to be a party to murder. That if they think the guy was guilty of something, they should hand him over for interrogation to extract intel that can be used to fight insurgents and save Marines. He could of grabbed the radio andreported the crisis. He could have lobbied the other men not to throw away their lives and careers by killing the Iraqi. He could have tried to interfere with the execution or grabbed a camera to document the crime. He could have done more than whimper when a Cpl growled.

After the murder he should have immediately reported it to any of the parties listed above. I guarantee you that would have changed the result of what actually happened. At the very least, Bacos would not be a convicted felon, he would not have just screwed-up his life, he probably would not suffer nightmares the rest of his life, and I would be proud to call him a Hospital Corpsman instead of referring to him as a POS coward.

(Yes, I have stood my ground as the junior enlisted man. Yes, I have stood my ground while in Iraq. Yes, I have acted “as the conscience of the smaller unit� and gotten embittered Marines to see the bigger picture. Yes, I’m trying to get you, the reader, to realize you need to do it too.)


FOLLOW ORDERS WITHOUT QUESTION
First off, they all disobeyed orders. They violated the Laws Of War (LOW) and the Rules Of Engagement (ROE) while committing their crimes. Bacos would have been following orders if he had had the moral courage to stand up to POS Hutchins and POS Magincalda.

I know you are talking about a lower ranking Doc following a higher ranking squad leader, but that is not an issue because the squad leader’s orders were illegal. It is indeed every Marine’s duty to obey lawful orders, but every Marine must also disobey unlawful orders. This has been the law of the United States since the birth of the nation, but that is a whole can of worms I’ll address later.


RESPECT RANK
Rank alone does not bring respect. The Marines, especially in combat, will recognize the Leader even if someone else out ranks that individual. Have you ever seen a squad not move at the LT’s command until the Sgt gives the nod?


DOC’s BUSINESS
As for Doc minding his own business, you must not be aware that combat is his business. While generally considered a noncombatant, Corpsman do serve as combatant leaders (http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed2.htm) from time to time; especially among Navy SEALs and Marine Recon. Furthermore, treating combat stress and aberrant behavior is without question the Doc’s business. http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed2.htm


SINGLED OUT
Sincethis is a Corpsman forum,I would expect the discussion to have a bias towards addressing Corpsman issues, but I was pretty consistent in my condemnation of all of the cowardly POS murderers. Furthermore, these cowardly POS are being condemned as kidnapping murderers should be. They are not being unfairly “persecuted� or ill-treated for their criminal conduct.

I am not sacrificing Bacos, he did all thatto himself. He threw it all away to “fit in� with the other murderers. My empathy is with the family and friends of the murdered Iraqi. My empathy is with family and friends of all the Americans that will die in retaliation for this murder. My empathy is with Bacos’ wife and child who are forced to live with the shame. Would you still be as empathetic towards Bacosif the murdered man was your father or son instead of "just some Iraqi"?

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

The fundamental purposes of the Law of War are both humanitarian and functional in nature.

The humanitarian purposes include:
1. protecting both combatants and noncombatants from unnecessary suffering;
2. safeguarding the fundamental human rights of persons who fall into the hands of armed belligerents; and
3. facilitating the restoration of peace.

The functional purposes include:
1. preventing the deterioration of good order and discipline in the unit;
2. maintaining the humanity of the soldiers involved in the conflict; and
3. maintaining the support of the public for the conflict.


Code of Conduct
"I am responsible for all my actions, or failure to act."


Nine Principles of the Law of War (LOW)
1. Marines fight only enemy combatants.
2. Marines do not harm enemies who surrender. They must disarm them & turn them over to their superior.
3. Marines do not kill or torture prisoners. Six S's & T: Secure, Search, Silence, Segregate, Safeguard, Speed to rear & Tag.
4. Marines collect & care for wounded, friend or foe.
5. Marines do not attack medical personnel, facilities or equipment.
6. Marines destroy no more than the mission requires.
7. Marines treat all civilians humanely.
8. Marines do not steal. Marines respect private property & possessions.
9. Marines do their best to prevent law of war violations & report violations to their superior


GENERAL RESPONSIBILITIES IN WARTIME
[] Carry out all lawful orders promptly and aggressively.
[] In rare case when an order seems unlawful, don’t carry it out right away but don’t ignore it either; instead, seek immediate clarification of that order.
() Marines may be held criminally responsible for any unlawful acts that they personally commit in time of war. Since there is no "statute of limitations" on the prosecution of war crimes, soldiers may have to defend themselves many years after the conflict ends.
() If a Marine is court-martialed for carrying out an unlawful order, that Marine cannot normally defend himself by claiming he was "just following orders." As a result of attending this class and using common sense, Marines are expected to be able to recognize an unlawful order and take appropriate action.

OBLIGATIONS TO PREVENT AND REPORT LOW VIOLATIONS
[] Prevention. Marines not only must avoid committing LOW violations; they must also attempt to prevent violations of the LOW by others.
[] Reporting Obligation. Marines must promptly report any actual or suspected violations of the LOW to their superiors; if that is not feasible, Marines will report to other appropriate military officers (e.g., IG, Judge Advocate, or Chaplain).

Separate from the UCMJ, military courts, and international lawis the War Crimes Act of 1996 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002441----000-.html). The law was passed to go after North Vietnamese soldiers who tortured US soldiers during the Vietnam War.It criminalized breaches of the Geneva Conventions (war crimes) so that the US civilian courts could prosecute war criminals and applies if either the victim or the perpetrator is a national of the United States or a member of the US armed forces. The penalty may be life imprisonment or death. The death penalty is only invoked if the illegal conduct resulted in the death of one or more victims. As such, the Iraqi family can still go after these POS murderers with the death penalty in US civilian court after the military is done with them.

Are you getting an idea of how destructive the "hate 'em all, kill 'em all" mentality is?

[DocHoop]

Chief, make no mistake. I agree HM3 Bacos lead himself to this point.All P.O.'s should be aware they are accountable for their actions. I also agree he should have grew some balls and make a stand. But thats not what happened. Ican justsee where he camewith his conclusion. When you are faced with a moment of truth people do one of 2 things, you eitheract or you freeze. I see it every so often in EMS or on deployment withnew new Corpsmanfacing their first code, first trauma, or thesight of a dead body. Thats something you don't train for. We will never know this, yet it did not seem Bacos carried enough wieght to get his Marinesear, much less the power to change there actions. You are giving me some ofthe laws of conduct, general responsibilities in time of war, and thelaws of war. That suchliterature isunfamiliar to newCorpsman. I didn't go to the naval war college.My first 2 deployments I was given ROE, the code of conduct, and probably gave the once over on the laws of war in my FMF book. Ijust credit my own morality for keeping mewithin lines. I will point out "the failure to act" is not in the code of conduct. Thebottom lineis he is paying forhis crimes. WellI'd give more, but I'm coming off a 24 hour shift. Talkto you all later.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

This is not some minor violation of some low level policy. This was kidnapping, murder, falsifying evidence, and a cover-up.

Would it be acceptable for a Rookie Officer to stand by as the Police Sergeant blew your brains out and manipulated the crime scene? Would it be "understandable" for the Rookie to file a false report and take part in the cover up of your murder for months after the "moment of truth"? When the crime is discovered should the Rookie be allowed to keep his job and maintain his title?


[] Bacos may not have carried enough weight with his squad to prevent the murder HAD HE ACTUALLY TRIED, but that does not excuse him for not trying.
[] Bacos did not need to carry any weight with his squad in order to report the matter upon returning to base.
[] I am not saying Bacos needed to kill or die in defense of the murder victim, but joining the conspiracy is a black-&-white, clear cut No-Go response, period.
[] I recall receiving such training in Boot Camp, A School, FMSS, pre-deployment work-up, deployment training, ROE training, correspondence courses, and various other occasions that did not involve the Naval War College.
[] Everyone on the green side should get training IAW MCO 3300.4 and I am confident that all Petty Officers know murder is wrong and that they have a duty to report such crimes. Any and all Petty Officers that are unaware of such fundamental things should not be Petty Officers.
[] Even if this group failed to attend any military training, are you seriously implying that Americans do not know it is wrong to kidnap, murder, file false reports, and cover-up a crime? Or are you implying that since the murdered victim wasn't American it is not as important and the criminal conduct is more understanding? I surely hope you do not maintain these views yourself or tolerate them in your subordinates.
[] The bottom line includes the fact that more Americans will die and we will be in Iraq that much longer because of the cowardly acts of these POS murderers.

"Marines are disciplined in combat. Violating the law of war dishonors our Nation, our Marine Corps, and ourselves. Far from weakening our enemy’s will to fight, disobeying the law of war strengthens it." -- MCO 3300.4


There is some redemption in confessing the crimes later and trying to do the right thing now, but in no way should he be allowed to keep his job or maintain his title. POS Hutchins and POS Magincalda hold a greater responsibility and will receive more severe punishments; but there can be absolutely no misunderstanding that regardless of what peer pressure Bacos experienced, this sort of behavior is inexcusable and intolerable.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

DocHoop wrote: I will point out "the failure to act" is not in the code of conduct.

The Code of Conduct (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/codeofconduct6.htm)quote I provided is from the 15TH MEU ROE/LOW BRIEF and is written in that manner to clarify that inaction is indeed an action you are responsible for. If your action is to cower away, turn a blind eye, and fail to act then you will be held responsible for that action.

[https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/JAGCNETInternet/Homepages/AC/CLAMO-Public.nsf/0/32726f5b643b972985256c1000701e12/$FILE/Ch%204,%20App%205.pdf
(Hopefully everyone will take a moment to view the PDF brief)

Since none of the POS murderers were POW's you could also argue the Code of Conduct has no place in this discussion. However, I am trying to showthat rules and standards apply no matter what your circumstance. It doesn't matter if you are the junior man trying to fit in or a POW detained in some camp; you are responsible for your actions. Your actions include both overt acts and the failure to act.

[puckmedic]

Meanwhile, somewhere a horse is slowly beaten to death...



The fools are getting what they deserve. Not being in a situation, doesn't really mean I won't know what I'll do til I get there. Thinking ahead and knoiwing what I should do allows me to formulate a plan. the time to do that is now, ot when you find yourself in it. Decide what type of person you are first before you have to learn the hard way.

[doc_rueda]

I was in Haditha during in 04. We, 1/8 CAP PLT, stayed at the Haditha Police station, for about 4 months. There is where I say how crooked they can be. I can see why the marines were frustrated when they didn't get the person they were looking for. Sure enough, the insurgent was tipped off by some local guy form the Haditha Dam or police officer...The police force there was crooked as hell! Even the cheif of police at that time didn't trust most of his men. I can relate to the frustration. I don't know the whole story behind the murder but I think those marines had probably just went through a tragic loss or were tired of playing that cat and mouse chase, looking for that asshole who's been causing alot of crap around that city.

They should've delt with it another way. Most likely the man was the insurgents relative. They could have took him in for interagation. I know when I was there, they were beaten the crap out them by the police men with there asp. And they said we torture them. HA! Shit is too crooked there.

[DocCollins]

Did anyone read the new Navy Times about this issue? There was a quote in there from this "military sociologist" who said, "In a band of brothers, they (Corpsman) are the step brother."

Anyway he went on to point out how Corpsman aren't treated like part of the team with a Marine unit. I and all my friends highly disagree with that but I just thought I'd share. I wish I had a copy around so I could quote more of it.

HM2 (FMF) Joseph Collins

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

In addition to being brothers-in-arms, Doc can be the babysitter, mom, dad, chaplain, psychologist, nutritionist, designated driver, physical trainer, personal motivator, guardian angel, and about a billion other things to the Marines.

While personally I’ve never seen it, I suppose it is possible that some of us may also serve as "step brothers" as well…

[DocCollins]

The only time I've seen it is when a Corpsman doesn't know how to do his job. If you don't know your job then you don't deserve respect from the Marines.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Excerpts
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/19/washington/19marine.html

A Marine corporal pleaded guilty Thursday to kidnapping and murdering an unarmed Iraqi civilian last year, saying he and other servicemen went after him because they were “sick and tired of getting bombed.�

The marine, Cpl. Trent D. Thomas, 25, is the first of seven marines and a Navy medic accused in the case to plead guilty to murder. Four others have pleaded guilty to reduced charges in exchange for their testimony.

Prosecutors said the eight-man squad had kidnapped 52-year-old Hashim Ibrahim Awad in Hamdania, a Sunni stronghold west of Baghdad, taken him to a roadside hole and shot him to death, placing an AK-47 and shovel by his body to make it look as if he were an insurgent caught planting a bomb.

Corporal Thomas said he and another marine seized Mr. Awad from a house by entering through an unlocked door. He said they used a combination of hand signals and Arabic commands to lure Mr. Awad away. Mr. Awad spoke little English, Corporal Thomas said, but he pleaded with the group of four marines.

The four took Mr. Awad to the roadside hole, where they rejoined the rest of the squad, Corporal Thomas said. Mr. Awad was struggling to break free, Corporal Thomas said, so he and others bound his hands and feet. Corporal Thomas said Lance Cpl. Robert Pennington tried to force Mr. Awad to lose consciousness by choking him.

The squad leader, Sgt. Lawrence G. Hutchins III, then reported over the radio that the group had spotted a man digging a hole, Corporal Thomas said. Someone fired a shot, he said, then he and others in the squad opened fire. Petty Officer Third Class Melson J. Bacos, he said, shot the AK-47 away from the group to make it appear as though a gunfight had occurred.

After the firing stopped, Corporal Thomas said, Sergeant Hutchins made sure Mr. Awad was dead by shooting a three-round burst of gunfire into his head.

Corporal Thomas faces up to life in prison without the possibility of parole, though he is likely to receive a more lenient sentence under his plea agreement.

[DocHoop]

Well, I can really see now why Doc pleaded out.