USMC to HM?

[dewilliams]

Hi All- My husband is currently an E-5 in the Marine Corps. He has always been obsessed with medicine and has recently decided he is going to be a Corpsman. I've lurked around on here the past couple of days to see what kind of information I could scrounge up. I know he wants to go back to 'green side' and work with a Marine detachment.

Here are my primary questions:
When can he start the 'transition process'? The Navy recruiter has told him that he can't do anything with him until his contract with the Marines is up.
How long will he be at Great Lakes for 'A' school?
Will he immediately go to FMSS (or FMTB? I think it's called now).
What is the chance that he will retain any rank?

Any advice, suggestions or personal experience would be greatly appreciated!

[IT3_to_HM3]

I know you can request to go blue to green, not sure about the other way around.

He should be able to keep his rank.

[Taylor]

He will be able to keep his rank, for sure.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Negotiations should be able to begin once he is within 12 mo of EOS. He should also feel free to shop around for Recruiters in the same way a person shops around for dealerships when buying a car. He is negotiating a contract and should go to the office where he can cut the best deal.

He should be able to keep E5, but there is no guarantee. He might have to loose a stripe or be given a temporary rank that would be made permanent after he completes all his requirements.

Since he is a Marine, he should be able to skip RTC and may be able to skip FMTB and put in for 8404 as soon as he completes NHCS.

[dockorean]

not too sure, i know a hm3 (e-4) that was a corporal in the corps, then went into the navy, he got bumped to e3 and still had to go to field med, he had to earn back his e4... i guess it might go on a case by case basis, but like chief said, the recruiter might be able to work something out, so he needs to make sure he gets a good recruiter

[dewilliams]

UPDATE!! After speaking with several Navy recruiters (Active duty and Reserves) and even an Army recruiter (just exploring all options!) my hubby is certain he will be 'crossing over' in December when his contract with the USMC is up. Many, many, many thanks to the HM's at the Washington DC Navy Yard! He stopped by to chat with them earlier this week and they were amazing and solidified his intentions.

Now, as a nervous (and curious) wife, I have a couple questions, the main being what happens when he 'get out' of the Marines? Obviously he won't be going to boot camp, but is there some kind of Customs and Courtesies program he will have to attend? When he heads to Great Lakes, will I stay here until he is given a more perminant duty station or would I travel with him to 'A' school and Pendleton/Lejeune?

Thanks so much for all your help! I appreciate it greatly.

[Taylor]

I dont know, will he have to go to boot camp? Because I remember back when I was in boot, there was this guy that was an E-5 in the army and went blue to become a sailor. He went to an abbreviated boot camp for 2 weeks.

Poor guy, they processed him just like a recruit, even called him "P-days." wasnt until he told the "ascension sailors" that he was a former parachutist sargeant that they showed him some respect.

[MAWDoc]

I believe that he will have to go through boot camp now. I recall a former Force Reconnaissance Sergeant (USMC) who got out of the Corps and joined the Navy because he wanted to be a SEAL. I worked with him alot in the special physicals department in getting his Diving physical done, and some waivers through Bumed 21. Not sure if he ever became a SEAL, but he sure went through boot camp...as an E-3 paid. Funny as hell watching this "Seaman" get lit up by an HN for wearing 4 rows of ribbons the day he walked into the Tranquillity clinic to pick up his record...the HN was summarily humbled by the way.

So, look into the boot camp thing...that was 1998 or 99...I remember that Marines never had to before, and thought it odd that he did. He said it was new policy...all OSVETs (Other Service veterans) were required to complete basic training.

Corps school...Da Chief can provide better insight into OSVET dependent housing/relocation? Some help, brother?

Best wishes to your husband. My best friends are Marines, and I only know one who went USMC to Corpsman, and he went right back to the same unit he left as a Marine, as a Corpsman...and hated it. He's not the best example, but in his case, he regretted it, and got out for good after one tour as a corpsman. And that was about 1.5 years ago, and the unit was 2nd LAAD Bn. Still wanted to be a Marine, sometimes wanted to be a doc. You can't be both when it suits you, but can certainly use the experience from one and make the second career better with the insight as a Marine. He is walking away from being a Marine and becoming a Sailor. Be one. Don't try to be both. Food for thought...

R/
Chief

[Fallujah_Grunt_Doc_05]

yeah he will not be able to retain his E5...the best he can get is E4 and that is after he finish's "A" school...this is only because there is no MOS equivilance in the marine corps to that of a corpsman in the navy.:err:

[ThomasPII]

I believe that he will have to go through boot camp now. I recall a former Force Reconnaissance Sergeant (USMC) who got out of the Corps and joined the Navy because he wanted to be a SEAL. I worked with him alot in the special physicals department in getting his Diving physical done, and some waivers through Bumed 21. Not sure if he ever became a SEAL, but he sure went through boot camp...as an E-3 paid. Funny as hell watching this "Seaman" get lit up by an HN for wearing 4 rows of ribbons the day he walked into the Tranquillity clinic to pick up his record...the HN was summarily humbled by the way.

R/
Chief

If this one is the one I am thinking of and he came through sometime last april/may then he actually wasn't able to go Seals, he became a corpsman. He did get e-4 though once he graduated from corps school.

[helenmaria]

When Giani left the marines to go into the NAVY..He left as 5-4 in the marines. Came in navy as e-3. With no sign on bonus. I was mad. We have lost alot of money so far.. I will look into with a navy recit.Giani is still e-3. I'm hoping he will pick up soon..that might help. Giani will be glad to talk to u

[IT3_to_HM3]

Haha. I wouldn't mind going through boot again. Might be fun.

[tact.medic]

OK speaking from my own personal experiance-

I'm prior Army- I didn't have to go to navy boot (thank god! I don't want waste another 2-3months of my life).
I left the Army as an E4, Enlisted in the Navy as an E5 (APG program).
I did not have to go to A school (I was already a paramedic, plus Army 91 bravo) But did go to FMSS.

When you see the recruiter make sure to negotiate for your contract, don't be intimidated by his/her rank. Tell them you will ONLY enlist as an E5, they might give you the old "we don't do that"- just tell them you have an appointment in 2 days for the Army recruiter, and if they change their minds to give you a call. 9 of 10 times you will be getting a call the next day. be respectful but be firm, remember this is your next 4-8 years of your life your negotiating.

While he is waiting to come onboard, I suggest he attend an EMT and afterwards a Paramedic course, might as well use his current GI Bill benefits to advance his future career ;). There will be a point in his Navy career where he will have to go "Blue" staying green forever doesn't help his career for promotion, and honestly, it is really hard to get awards- the Marines are stingy LOL.

Good luck to him.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Any saleman would love to charge you a million dollars for a $10 product. It is up to you, as an adult, to negotiate the best deal for you and your family.

Just like buying a car: Do not expect to get a $100,000 car for $100 but if the first saleman doesn't give you the deal you are looking, ask to speak with another salesman. If that dealership does not budge, go to another dealer.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

The Navy does like to see career diversity (Blue & Green tours of duty) and the Marines are typically really stingy presenting awards - especially to Navy types.

However, if you take care of your Marines and excell in your duties it is possible to stay green, make rank, and be recognized for your performance. In previous years, this was a definite exception to the rules. It seemed that ship time and sea duty was pretty much mandatory to make higher rank. There was a time when is was almost impossible for Corpsmen to get non-medical command slots and pure green FMF Corpsman were at a career disadvantage overall but I think things have changed dramatically since 2001.

If you are a strong leader taking charge of men in the field during deployments, I think the Selection Boards are going to recognize your future potential even with a pure green career. Most now recognize that a tour with the Marines and combat deployment is more than equivalent to 6-mo at sea on a ship.

It also seems to me that far more Corpsmen are taking non-medical command slots. My CMDCM is HMCM(SW/FMF) and even the MCPON is HMCM(SW/FMF) with some time on the green side.

Some old "rules" appear to have been broken

[MAWDoc]

There will be a point in his Navy career where he will have to go "Blue" staying green forever doesn't help his career for promotion, and honestly, it is really hard to get awards- the Marines are stingy LOL.

I agree with the blue/green rotation for career progression. You can't cruise through on 20 years of Type 2 duty anymore and expect to make it past CPO (13 years out of 16 for me with Marines, and HMC in 2001...still an HMC)

Beyond that, I disagree with the awards statement. The Marines have been really good to me, and many others I know. Are you gonna get a NAM for doing your job, as in a hospital??? Probably not. With the exception of 1 NAM, everything I wear was presented by a Marine officer, signed by a Marine - both coasts, Iraq & Afghanistan, and Japan/Oki. I'm not Chesty Puller, but I've got a few, including my first Navy Com as a HM2 from a Marine MajGen. So, I disagree with the awards stinginess.

R/
Chief

[MAWDoc]

If this one is the one I am thinking of and he came through sometime last april/may then he actually wasn't able to go Seals, he became a corpsman. He did get e-4 though once he graduated from corps school.

It was 1998/1999 - So, not the same guy...

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Are you gonna get a NAM for doing your job, as in a hospital???

"Stingy" may be a poor choice of words but otherwise you appear to confirm what is being hinted at.

To stereotype and make generalities: The Marines typically require a much higher level of performance before an award is considered and the award presented is often at a lower level that what one of the other branches would present for the same performance.

That is just one reason why inter-service awards often must be approved by the parent branch and a bunch of Marines were required to return Army medals and accept downgraded awards approved by the Marine Corps. It is generally accepted that if the Army wants to award you a Bronze Star, the Marines will present a Commendation Medal. On more than one occasion I have also had USMC SNCO's and Officers outright refuse to put a Corpsman in for a personal award because "Doc was just doing his job" by treating a critically injured patient or achieving things like zero unit heat casualties during CAX when accompanying units had 20-90% heat casualties.

Having said all that, FMF Hospital Corpsmen as a group are among the most highly decorated and more times than not those awards were presented by the Marine Corps.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

BTW, my career is 100% greenside and to this day I feel more personal pride for one of my "lowly" USMC Meritiorious Mast (NAVMC 10935) than I do for the USAF flag letter I got from the late LtGen DeKok three months later. Like you, only 1 of my NAM's was not signed by a Marine.

For most of my career I saw senior FMF HM1's go HYT and it wasn't until the late 90's that I noticed a change and since 2001 it appears a lot more CPO's are coming from the FMF community. HM's are also getting non-medical command billets. I think this trend is going to continue for at least as long as the spotlight continues to be on the FMF mission and 'muddy' leaders are as highly prized as 'salty' leaders.

[8404]

...non-medical command billets...

Could you give an example of a non-medical command billet? Not sure what or where that would be. Seems strange a Corpsman would be assigned to a billet that was non-medical.

[Kaymanism]

Could you give an example of a non-medical command billet? Not sure what or where that would be. Seems strange a Corpsman would be assigned to a billet that was non-medical.

Right now...which is ridiculous beyond belief...we actually have a graduate from the ST program who is assigned to Bremerton and was told they would NOT see patient care because they are overstaffed there and was reassigned to oversea readiness and all she is doing is going through records of the marines to make sure everything is in order for them to deploy.

Is that an example? I know it falls in medical field but seems funny that someone that would go through corps school and st school would end up in documents. Oh well...the needs of the Navy :)

[8404]

I believe that would be what they call records and is within a medical environment. I was asking more along the lines of non-medical. I took the above post as being assigned somewhere you would not be using the Corpsman skills.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Could you give an example of a non-medical command billet? Not sure what or where that would be. Seems strange a Corpsman would be assigned to a billet that was non-medical.

The Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (MCPON) is a non-medical command billet and HMCM(SW/FMF) Joe Campa holds that billet. Basically I mean the senior-most enlisted position at a command whose main mission is not medical in nature (the unit is *not* a hospital, clinic, med supply, med school, etc.)

[MAWDoc]

Similarly, I had an AZCM as a Command Master Chief at Naval Hospital Great Lakes in the late 90s. CMDCM's are Senior Enlisted Advisors. Unless it is MEF, MARFOR, MARDIV or MLG, (where you are still required to be a secondary 8404 - corpsman), it doesn't matter what your rate was before you changed to CMDCM...that job (CMC) has nothing to do with your past rating.