9502 question

[0311_DoC]

Is this a formal school or what? I saw that they want you to do the two IDC courses on NKO from the TCCC site. by doing these courses does that give you the NEC?

You will likely be assigned duties as a TCCC Instructor after you complete this course. If you are not already an instructor with the 9502 NEC you are strongly encouraged to complete the following courses on NKO:

* Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) - CNL-IDC-AP-1
* IDC Journeyman - CNL-JIT-0010

The courses are designed to train personnel in the application of principles of learning, instructional methods, strategies and techniques, effective communication, oral questioning, and presentation techniques.

[0311_DoC]

well I was told this when I asked:

You will not be able to attain the 9502 NEC without going to the Navy
formal JIT Course, however, if you do the NKO courses listed in your
email, you will have a good idea on how a Navy Instructor should teach.

[0311_DoC]

ok, so how do I find out about the formal 9502 course. I don't have a CAC reader at home so I cant access secure sites from here...

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

1. Get a CAC reader for home use. Your NOSC/unit should issue you one or you may purchase one, but get one for personal use off base.

2. NKO and NRWS can still work without a CAC and so do Yahoo and Google

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=17980
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/NEC/SS.htm
https://wwwa.nko.navy.mil/portal/page?paf_pageId=pg105810025

3. Complete NAVEDTRA 14300, Navy Instructional Theory, for the class. https://www.courses.cnet.navy.mil

4. Additional eLearning will be done with the course.

IDC-JIT-0011: Journeyman Instructor Training

[0311_DoC]

Thanks Chief. So I do a non residence course the 2 courses on e-learning and then how do I find a formal class?

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Do the eLearning while you are researching the CANTRAC info and MILPERSMAN articles (cited in CANTRAC). Among other things, CANTRAC lists all the scheduled dates and locations. You might also contact some of the various schools that conduct the training for additional info. Work with your unit COC or NOSC POC and hand them your research. Complete the eLearning, pick a date, submit a package for a seat, and start an NROWS app.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Do you have a deadline you are working against or was this a future plan/general curiousity question?

[0311_DoC]

well Im hearing im getting mobed in June, i would like to get a course before that, but I am also attending the TCCC instructor course in May at CPEN.

[FMF_DOC]

Hello and good day to you. To become a 9502 you must complete whats know as FSIC. It is a Facilitators Instructor Course. There is one located here where I work. All of our Corpsman here at FMTB are required to attend and obtain the 9502 rating. In my class, I sat among Colonels, Majors and high ranking staff personnel. They mostly took the course, like myself to push on to the CDC "Curriculum Developers Course". After succesful completion of the FSIC Course, you will obtain the 9502 rating. Remember, just because your an "Instructor" doesnt mean you know everyhting, it just means you can find the answers to questions people may have from many different sources and reply to that question with confidence knowing your source was,"Up to date". If you do obtain your 9502...might as well get your MTS...I should complete mine in about two weeks...Im STOKED!!!
R/HM1 Paul

[0311_DoC]

HM1, thanks for the info. I have not heard of the FSIC course, I have heard of the Basic instructors course, and the JIT. are they all the same? I wish they offered me the FSIC course when I went thru FMSS. and as as far as the MTS what is entailed with that. I would love to get an instructors billet at some point. I love teaching and or facilitating

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

The Formal School Instructor Course (FSIC) is a USMC course and not available to most sailors. It used to be called the Instructor Orientation Course and is one of several courses that may qualify a sailor for NEC 9502.

http://www.pendleton.usmc.mil/schools/ims/cd_fsic.htm
http://www.pendleton.usmc.mil/schools/ims/publications.htm

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I doubt you are going to get funds & orders for an instructor course prior to April but don't let that stop you from trying...

Your best bet is a course in your local area. You might also try for back-to-back orders so you go to TCCC-T at Camp Pendleton and JIT at Coronado.

[0311_DoC]

I am checking into that as well Chief. might as well try to kill 2 birds with one stone ;)

[0311_DoC]

I doubt you are going to get funds & orders for an instructor course prior to April but don't let that stop you from trying...

Your best bet is a course in your local area. You might also try for back-to-back orders so you go to TCCC-T at Camp Pendleton and JIT at Coronado.

Chief, would happen to know the dates for the JIT course in Coronado?

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I think they have one almost every other week. Check CANTRAC for specifics.

If you still don't have access to CANTRAC (or local assistance) let me know.

[0311_DoC]

then there is this....

C/U/E Ind CIN/
E-Catalog Cd CDP/
PCDP TITLE SCHEDULES QUOTA
C A-012-0043 1976 BASIC INSTRUCTOR COURSE See Schedule Advisement See Quota Advisement
A-012-0077 4640 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
4641 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
4642 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
4645 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
4647 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
4648 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
4649 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
631K Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
979A Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT) SCHEDULES QUOTAS
A-012-1011 626X Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT)-Mobile Training Team See Schedule Advisement See Quota Advisement
626Y Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT)-Mobile Training Team SCHEDULES See Quota Advisement
7794 Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) Journeyman Instructor Training (JIT)-Mobile Training Team SCHEDULES See Quota Advisement

[0311_DoC]

Again I really don't know how to decipher the quotas. but How would I as a reservist get a seat. it looks like there is places only for: DCIVN, FNATN, USNATAR, USMCARG, USNARG & USCGARG. so to me it looks like, tar quotas, USMC Air guard, and Cost Guard. I don't know what the first two are.

[0311_DoC]

This is what I could dig up.


CNRFC N7 QUOTAS


Procedures for requesting quota reservations and submitting applications to CNRFC N7 ADT Schools via Naval Reserve Order Writing System (NROWS)

1. OBTAINING QUOTAS. Applications submitted via NROWS does not automatically generate a quota request or obtain a quota reservation from the school. You must obtain a quota from the proper Quota Control point of contact listed in the CANTRAC or from the appropriate Customer Service Representative (CSR), before submitting an NROWS application. Procedures will vary according to the type of school being requested.

CNRFC N7 ADT schools funding source info:Funding Source


All "A" & "C" school require a completed NAVPERS 1306/7 to be submitted with their request. Use the following as an example for filling out the reason and comments blocks: 1306/7




b. ALL NEC AWARDING "C" SCHOOL QUOTAS: There must be a requirment in the command/unit for the requested NEC. The Chain of Command is responsible for verifying all prerequisites and entrance criteria IAW CANTRAC, latest ECMO Message, PFA standards and EAOS requirements. Contact the appropriate CSR for that area (see paragraph 3). The CSR will verify availability of ADT funding, and will request a quota from the Quota Management Office. Either the active duty detailer or the CSR controls school quotas. If there is not an allocated Reserve seat in the class, 30 days prior to class convening date, all open seats are released for the general population to fill. The program managers will then attempt to secure a quota and will keep you informed of the status of the quotas.

c. ALL NON "A" and NEC "C" SCHOOL QUOTAS: Navy Reserve Activities will coordinate all quota reservations with the quota agents listed in CANTRAC. Enter the quota control number either in QCN block or in the justification/comments section.

d. NRAC QUOTAS: NRAC has unique quota control and reporting instructions. The NRA NPS coordinator must use the NRAC order template, as outlined on their website http://www.nsgreatlakes.navy.mil/NRAC/. POC is MRC McClemore or HT1 Finn, DSN 792-7684, COMM (847) 688-7684.

e. Naval Reserve Professional Development Center (NRPDC): Before entering an application into NROWS, you must first obtain a quota from NRPDC. If internet access is not available, quota requests may be faxed to (504) 678-2014. You must have a confirmed quota before submitting an application in NROWS.

! NOTE !


The POC information submitted on the NROWS application should be the POC information of the quota-granting activity or school house.

2. SELECTING APPROPRIATE FUNDING SOURCE CODES (FSC). This is critical to our accounting processes. Once you have chosen Type of Active Duty Request as "Active Duty For Training" and then ADT Type as "School ADT", you will have a choice of funding source codes. The choices are:


"COMNAVRESFOR N7 ADT School" is is the default selection and MUST be changed. Please do not use it. It is NOT a valid FSC and applications using this FSC will be disapproved.

The type of school the member is attending, not the Warfare/Program Community they are attached to, will determine which FSC is should be selected. If the school specifically relates to a Program/Community select the associated FSC. For example, an Aviation Ordnanceman (AO) who wants to attend NAS Weapons Department AVORD NEC 6801 would use the "AIR N7 ADT Schools" FSC. If the same AO also wanted to attend Small Arms Instructor NEC 0812, he would then use "FLEET N7 ADT Schools" FSC. This busy little AO now needs a LTC course prior to advancement. He would use "OTHER N7 ADT School" FSC for this course. The applicable program manager will automatically review the application. If an incorrect FSC is selected, the application will be disapproved with direction to call N7 to determine proper FSC, or with direction to resubmit under a specific FSC. We cannot change the funding source code; only the initial OS or member can change the funding source code. The best option is to call N7 Customer Service Representative (CSR) prior to submission, to determine which FSC to use.



4. REVIEWING THE APPLICATION: Every level in the NROWS chain must review the application for clarity, appropriateness of duty, and completeness. We at CNRFC are no longer able to perform any edits on your applications. If there are errors, we must disapprove the application and return to you for corrections/modifications.

Points to keep in mind:

- Read the current Order Processing and Transportation Arrangements for Navy Reservists instruction COMNAVRESFORCOM INST 1571.1A part1 and part 2, the current FY AT/ADT guidance message with all updates, and the financial guidance message and updates.

- If a CIN/CDP exist for the course, please provide both on the application. CIN/CDP information can be found in the CANTRAC.

-"A" school students will be required to stay in the barracks and eat at the galley. Rental cars will not normally be granted. That being the case, they are not normally authorized per diem.

- For any school, leave the "number of days in field" box of travel detail section blank. This is for people eating MRE's in the field or onboard the ship.

- If per diem is authorized ensure correct location is selected.

- If member did not execute orders, cancel ASAP.

- Once orders are complete, have members liquidate orders ASAP.

If you have any questions at all about ADT School's applications, please call us before or during application entry.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Rather than paste what you know to be garble, take a moment to edit/reformat the information so it is easily readable (or matches the source document).

How about if you delete all the stuff that has nothing to do with JIT. Eliminating the data that does not effect you and JIT may make it easier to concentrate on the information that does.

The CANTRAC requires CAC login. I am not sure if the POC info in section 3 is supposed to be posted publicly.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

**Is all this stuff done yet?**

Students attending instructor training school (NEC 9502), are to access computer based training (CBT) Instructional Delivery Continuum (IDC) courses titled "Instructional Delovery Continuum (IDC) Apprentice (CNL-IDC-AP-1) and "IDC Journeyman" and become familiar with the content prior to report date.

Personnel must meet instructor selection and assignment criteria in MILPERSMAN 1306-953. Complete sections A and D2 of NAVPERS 1306/92, Special Program Screening Form, Exhibit 1 in accordance with MILPERSMAN 1306-900. Documentation of Instructor Screening must be made in member's service record...
*****

You can't attend the course until you get that done. Some people may be reluctant to even talk about class quotas until you are qualified to attend,

You must obtain a quota from the proper Quota Control point of contact listed in the CANTRAC or from the appropriate Customer Service Representative (CSR), before submitting an NROWS application. Procedures will vary according to the type of school being requested.

Your chain of command and/or NOSC AT Shop should have access to eNTRS and should be able to request a class seat for you. Another option is to contact the schoolhouse you wish to attend and ask for instructions. Try clicking on the CANTRAC CDP or UIC number to locate enrollment instructions or a site specific POC to contact for guidance.

[0311_DoC]

I have done the IDC course on NKO/e-learning. I have not submitted the MILPERSMAN / NAVPERS forms yet. My NOSC is less than helpful and/or knowledgeable on anything I ask. As to why I ask a million questions in here, and learn what I must do so I can put the info in their faces. But I would like to thank you Chief, you have been MORE than patient with all my questions.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I sent you another PM with some more info.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Often times, one of the developmental tools I employ is to supply a source of information rather than the information itself. I will tell you where to look for the answer instead of just handing it to you.

It goes along with that old saying: Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you will feed him for life.


Phone calls and emails are typically not that effective in getting certain offices to move for you. There are hundreds of sailors who talk the talk when it comes to making requests, but when it is time to finalize the deal, a lot of people suddenly back out. Who wants to go through all that extra work to set things up, just to have it all fall apart when the requestor back out at the last minute over some lame excuse? After a while some people tend to develop a deaf ear to most requests.

If you really want something, take the time and make the effort to visit the NOSC during their normal workweek. Back your talk up with action that shows your dedication to getting things done and commitment to going to the school. Bring printed copies of all your research, completed prerequisites, and any forms mentioned. Then play 20 questions. (What does this mean? Who do I talk to? How do I do it? What is next? Etc., etc., etc.) Take notes, write down action items with due dates, and keep a copy of everything – especially things with signed authorization/approval. Kill them with kindness and drown them in documentation presented with a persistent professional pestering.

One of the most important questions: "What do you need from me to make this happen?"

The easier you make it for the person behind the counter to do their job, the more likely you are going to get what you want. The more you keep your request in the limelight and prevent it from falling through the cracks, the more likely you are going to get what you want. Use words like “Please” and “Thank you” a lot. Never let an item be waiting for you to take action or complete. Engage the chain of command as appropriate and be prepared to provide fitting compliments as deserved but try to limit complaints to only when needed.

[psencik1950]

That is not only true in the service, but will be a lesson learned for the rest of your life in anything you do.

[0311_DoC]

Man, trying to get in this course is a BUTT kicker. It seems that this course is detailer controlled and its hard getting a seat as a reservist.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

32nd St tends to give priority to fleet personnel and you ain't one of 'em. However, try both the front door and the back door.

Give NRPDC New Orleans a look too.

Don't give up though.

[0311_DoC]

I just got my approval today to attend JIT in Bangor Washington. WOO HOOOO

[8404]

I just got my approval today to attend JIT in Bangor Washington. WOO HOOOO

You're on your way Doc, congratulations!

[0311_DoC]

Thanks... I cant wait....

[0311_DoC]

now i am having issues with funding.. BUMED wont fund since its not a medical course. And my gaining command is having issues with sending me cuz i am a reservist ????

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Never make them wait on you for an action item. While you are debating funding, make sure you put in your NROWS application and forward it along. They sometimes get approved in spite of the verbal debate and if they are denied, you just make the required modification and resubmit.

Being a "Reservists" is NOT a valid reason to deny the request but some people are HUA. You can explain to your gaining command that both the Navy & Marine Corps prefer certified instructors (9502) teach the TCCC and CLS courses. (9502 is not required but it is recommended & preferred). BLS classes are also required for a lot of Sailors & Marines.

I am confident TCCC-T, CLS-T, and AHA BLS (or ARC CPR) instructor certification are all on your master plan. Sell your command on how much easier and less expensive it would be to get everyone qualified with an in-house instructor at the unit.

[0311_DoC]

Never make them wait on you for an action item. While you are debating funding, make sure you put in your NROWS application and forward it along. They sometimes get approved in spite of the verbal debate and if they are denied, you just make the required modification and resubmit.

Being a "Reservists" is NOT a valid reason to deny the request but some people are HUA. You can explain to your gaining command that both the Navy & Marine Corps prefer certified instructors (9502) teach the TCCC and CLS courses. (9502 is not required but it is recommended & preferred). BLS classes are also required for a lot of Sailors & Marines.

I am confident TCCC-T, CLS-T, and AHA BLS (or ARC CPR) instructor certification are all on your master plan. Sell your command on how much easier and less expensive it would be to get everyone qualified with an in-house instructor at the unit.

Thanks for the ammo Chief. I did submit my request. But as I said BUMED isn't going to help and my gaining command is being wishy washy about using the funds for me on this since I had to submit it under AT. I am exempt from normal AT this year since I just got of a MOB.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Politely and professionally remind them of that. They likely want you to support a unit AT, especially if they are shorthanded. Make the argument that best supports your position and the good of the Navy in a give-&-take conversation.

Remind them of your track record & performance history. Spin it as a "thank you" or "reward" for mobilization. Mention career development. Highlight command benefits. Commit to support future Ops & hard to fill positions. Your AT funds may only be used for you and you are not obligated to perform an AT this year so, assuming you are AJ Squared Away, you hold a relatively strong hand. If you can't go to JIT what is a second option or your civilian plans to make productive use of the time? Ask what they are willing to do for you. Can you get a promise for next FY.

Use your chain of command. Contact your NOSC. Discuss it with the CMDCM. How will the NOSC benefit? How will the unit benefit? How will your shipmates benefit? How will your Navy career benefit? How will the Navy benefit?

Do not burn bridges, but do not simply give up and roll over either. Show your value to the Navy and negotiate your deal. You can't always get what you want and sometimes a personal sacrifice is required for the greater good, but sometimes all you have to do is shed some additional light on the situation for leadership to adjust their perspective.

Good luck!

[0311_DoC]

Ok I used some of your wise words and as of today my orders are official :) I will be going to JIT in Bangor/Bremerton area on 16 JUN.... Thank you Chief, and everyone who helped me through this.....

[0311_DoC]

well this course is almost over. its a little different than what I expected. I expected it to be a little more challenging but non the less a good course.