ALL MALES NOW TO ATTEND FMSS

[Da-Chief]

All Males who are reporting out of NHCS regardless of next duty station will be attending FMSS. This goes for Fleet Returnee's as well..

What does this mean to you? If you cannot pass the FMSS Screening to attend the school due to injury etc.. You will be processed for ADMIN SEP.

This does not mean you will be getting a FMF billet automatically out of school, what it does mean though is you will have the training needed to save your ass if need be if your sent "IA" if assigned to a hopsital. You will understand the Marine Corps, weapons, adn the whole process of living in the field.

Understand though, FMSS does not make you a expert. Getting the FMF device after being assingned to a unit does ify you pass and complete the program.

This came down 2 weeks ago from BUPERS, All detailers are already cutting orders this way.

Reserves, Expect the same as VADM Cotton has already put out we are "1" Force.

Da-Chief.

[Poolzer]

Though I feel your options in the polls are biased and degrading to those that joined the Navy to be Navy Corpsmen and serve with and deploy with Navy units, Ill answer the question at hand.

Not only do I think it should be mandatory (for both males AND females)to go through FMSS, I also think there should be a 2 week refresher course for any HM that has gone through it, but has not been with a deployed unit in 5 years and then goes to one. Out of the 8 official military schools Ive gone through in my 10 years, FMSS rates #2 as far as importance to the job at hand. It not only crash courses field medicine, but military bearing and where your mind needs to be at.

[Da-Chief]

I have added a portion to the poll becuase what Poolzer says are vaild points.. I know when I joined, I didn't remember anything about the Marine Corps..

;-)

But serioulsy, You could be sent to a ARMY, AF or Marine Unit or hell a Navy Unit in Iraq or Afghanistan now..

The world is changing.. I wish the recruiting propeganda just would tell the truth though, people would be much happier..

I "believe" everyone joined to be a "WARRIOR SAILOR". I just think the landscape is scewed now, Not even in Vietnam did we deploy like this so often etc..(Remember we had a DRAFT then..)

Thanks Poolzer, I was trying to put a piece of humor in the poll but like I said you raised a vailid point..

Da-Chief

[Poolzer]

No worries Chief, I just felt there should be an honest option in the poll for those that dont share your view.

As great as a place that this could be, throwing biased questions like that will scare (or turn off) HM's away from posting here. This site should be about being a Navy Corpsman, not a green side Corpsman, which for the most part it is. As the admins, you need to be able to leave your personal opinions to your own comments and allow polls and debates free of it so ALL corpsmen feel they have the freedom to express their views, even annonymously. There isno difference in how a Corpsman serves, be it with Navy units or Marine Corps. As you mentioned, with IAs and MAP's we can go anywhere to do our job, or stay with our own units and do it.

[Doc_Pardue]

Speaking from the Army side of the house. I think it important to be prepared to deal with any type of injury or wound. The more experience and education the better. One needs to be able to work in a hospital ward, holding sick-call, being a field Doc, it helps those we serve. I have worked in all areas and was thankful for the time in each but I was better prepared to help those I served, after-all, this is what we do as caregivers. It is true that there was a draft during Vietnam, and those soldiers didn't get so many deployments or as often. Nor did the reserves or national guard have to go overseas. We are fighting a different type of war now. I for one would like to see another draft so that soldiers and sailors didn't have to be redeployed as often.

[Da-Chief]

Poolzer and Doc"P"

Thanks for your posts.

Poolzer, Feel free to throw Criticism to me here. I enjoy a healthy debate.

Truth be told, hell I didn't even realize that I was steering this more to the FMF side of the house. (I do now though).

I liked when Puckmedic was in the house more as he has done the ship thing. I have never had the opportunity.. (Don't even get me started on this subject!!).

Very few HM's now days serve on Ships, seems like more and more are either in Clinic's, Hospitals or with the FMF. (I don't forget Squadrons and the like as these are my breed!)

Anywho... Time to find someone on a ship now who can post etc.. Would like the insight around here..

Thanks!
Da-Chief

[combatdoc]

Hey Chief, Hey Doc P, good to see you,

I think it would be a great thing for all to go through FMSS. But we know that is totally impossible, or at least a shorter version of it.

It has made me very proud of who I am today. And what I was back then.

[oldavt]

Yes, I think every corpsman (male and female) should go through FMSS. The training would be invaluable. However, this raises several interesting questions, Chief. Are there sufficient billets in FMSS to absorb and adequately train all male HCS graduates? Are they still doing the 7 week training? How much acceleration of training can you do without compromising the effectiveness? Will this wind up with lots of corpsmen sitting on their butts in a holding company at the Marine base waiting for a slot? Inquiring minds want to know.

[DocHayes]

My only concern is by making FMSS part of the "pipeline" forall males to become HM's, will this somehow sacrifice the end result? Somehow I think that with the pressure of the added number of students going through FMSS, will result in a lot of sailors being filed through an assembly line of FMSS, just to get them through.

And in agreement with Poolzer, there will have to be some kind of refresher training prior to deployment for HM's who are 8404's, but have not done anything with the FMF or anything like that since.

[hm8404doc]

I agree with everyone here, FMSS should be required for both males and females to go through. Not only does it prepare you for serving with green side but it also drives military bering into your minds that for some reason or another many sailors lack. Actually when I was going through a few months ago there the CMC was telling us that they have plans to lengthen the training there to 9 weeks which I think would be great. In these two extra weeks there will be more time spent at the gun ranges getting qualed on the 9mm and m16, and also all students will go through MCMAP.

[Da-Chief]

Extending it while on paper looks good, but when you just upped the numbers and Camp Pendleton is going through Re-hab right now(Camp Del-Mar berthing this is why the females have to go to Lejeune). I know since I have been sending people on to FMSS out of school, we have never had a "FULL" class this early.

Both Schools right now are full for the January class, we are now sentting up students for March.

Are they on hold in a "HOLD COMPANY?" Nope we send em on to work either in Naval Hosptial Camp "P" or 29 Palms, and Lejeune to get some experience prior to getting to class.

Only ones who are going to different areas are the Reserves, I am sending them to the Reserve Centers to work with thier I&I doc's or with the Reserve Center Staff to help them out.

We don't want to send them to areas where all they do is pick up trash and paint all day long.

But, remember what it was like to report to a ship or squadron your first 75 days?

Mess Cranking, 1st LT division etc...

Happens everywhere I'm afraid..

But we try..

V/R
Da-Chief

[DevilDoc]

Wow! This poses some interesting questions and insight into many avenues of FMSS. First off, sending everyone to FMSS, while it sounds good, isn't necessarily feasible or economical for the Navy. And would it just turn into some assembly line, where they just push you through to get you done? Shortening it would be a HUGE mistake, because the curriculum isn't even sufficient in my mind anyway, to properly prepare you for a Marine Corp Billet. There is so much more that should be done with this school, lengthening it would be a bonus, enabling them to teach us more of what we need to know. FAM fire just doesn't cut it, you need to really know what you are doing with a weapon, if you are going to be with the Marines.

Next off, being a female and having graduated from FMSS, I can say this..it's not for everyone. This goes for men and women alike. There are some real weak people out there, and I don't just mean physically. While there, some guy disappeared when we were out in the field, took his rifle and hid in the brush, darn near had a nervous breakdown, because a Marine Advisor yelled at him. As I said, some people just aren't cut out for this. Another example, there was a female Petty Officer with me at FMSS. She was GREAT Corpsman! Medically speaking, she was on Par...really knew her stuff. On top of that, she had a strong spirit. However, she weighed 92 pounds...her pack weighed almost as much as her. She never gave up...but she couldn't keep up physically with the group. She was just to small to bear all that weight. She wasn't there by choice. This was around the time they started implementing that rule where if you wanted a "C" school, you had to go to FMSS first. She ended up failing out of FMSS. They took her caduese from her and made her an SN, all because she was physically not strong enough. She ended up getting out of the Navy, taking an ADMIN seperation because she didn't want to be anything but a corpsman and they took that from her, because of her size. This is a prime example of why it just isn't suitable to try and make everyone go through FMSS. Are we willing to sacrifice really capable Corpsman over this? Me personally, I would rather have her brains and spirit trying to save my life (albeit in the hospital) than some big brute who scraped by on the academic part, but passed because he's strong enough to hike out 80 pounds. Sometimes brains have to over power bronze!

As for me, I wouldn't want be anything but an FMF Corpsman! But then, I am strong enough to carry out my Marines...and smart enough to fix em up right to.

OORah!

[Da-Chief]

Devil Doc,

Here in lies the problem, the Hosptial Billets are going away.. We will no longer be serving in them as they are putting Civ's in our billets. If you go up to NCGL now (used to be Naval Hospital Great Lakes) you walk around and look at all the civ's doing the jobs "WE" used to do, Quad 0 jobs as well as Lab, X-ray etc..

The old day are just that.. the old days, Navy Medicine is transforming.

I hate to say it but it is good she got out. As harsh as it sounds, We have enough to worry about when deployed be it either with the Marines or even in Garrison/ or on a Ship..to worry if somone can pull their weight. IF she can't do it, it means someone will have to pick up the slack. We don't have the manpower for it.

Hence the reason if your not qualed during the FMSS Brief screening your processed for admin sep.

We are overcoming a long history of Sailors just being "PLAIN FAT," and "OUTTA SHAPE" (Hosptial side). I know you have noticed others laughing at us in uniform with the bellies hanging out.. Hell Some "CHIEF's" Could manage a obstacle course wiht a coffee cup on their belly without using their hands..

I can tell you that if I were to be screened today I would not be able to stay. With my conditions I would be forced out. Hence the reason I saw the writing on the wall and put in my papers.. I love my Navy and agree..

I don't make the rules and neither do you.. we just have to follow them. (Then bitch about it with drink at a bar..)

;-)
Thanks
Da-Chief

[Poolzer]

Hate to keep bringing the issue up...but there is more to life than being green side. The Navy has multitudes of operational blue side billets for all ranks of HM's. Shipboard, squadron and see-bees are the big three and NONE of those billets are going away anytime soon. The aviation community alone has literally hundreds of billets for HMs that have nothing to do with FMSS or green side medicine, that are just as important on the operational side.

Yes, more than 1/2 the need for HM lies on the green side...but the other half is just as important and the need is still there for them. Not being able to pass fmss and losing your rate is just bullshit for that. There are plenty of operational jobs for HM in the real Navy.

[Da-Chief]

Poolzer,

While I agree.. The Way the Navy is working it now out of Pers, If you they don't make it through FMSS, the admin sep automatically now, not like the old days.

What I am trying to say so it doesn't sound like I am kicking a dead horse..

I agree with both of you.. 101%, but the rules have changed..

as the MCPON told us at a brief last month, we have to follow the rules given.. no bending and hiding people like before...

It is what it is..

Your right though if your lucky enough to get a squardon or a ship (RARE VERY RARE) out of School, then you might be able to slide through..

But as of late, if you don't pass FMSS your out..

Da-Chief.

[Doc_Pardue]

I have been thinking of starting soon...

[HM3_JD]

I can't say I'm happy with that decision, as I think it limits the Navy's ability to recruit good medics, but I did sign on the line, so I'll do what I'm told (just not anytime soon :()

[Da-Chief]

HM3_JD,

See here it the problem, we have to break out of the paradigm that has been setup for our corps..

Not only isour Hospital Corps shifting missions, so is the rest of the NAVY. We are actually deploying personnel off ships "SHIPS" to go be in the sand for 6-8 months.. All Rates, OFFICERS etc.. OS'es.. Hell we have 1 YN1 from our command who is now in IRAQ with a Medical UNIT attached with the Marines.. Do you think he signed up for this? He was supposed to be "ADMIN" support to our command, hell he "WAS" the LPO for Admin..

We have sent CS's.. MA's ET's, etc.. from Great Lakes..

It's a new military, we can't sit there and say Ship, Ship, Ship..

Those days are over.. We are all "1" fighting force now..

Semper Fi..

Da-Chief.

[crazycajun]

Just want to say I agree totally with Da'Chief.

JD don't know if you have seen my post on the actual number of billets there are for all Navy Ship's. There are approximately 840 billets for HMs, of those about 400 are for 0000, the rest are NEC driven. Hospitals are transitioning from using many HMs and replacing them with civilians who can do the same job. Right now the FMF is in need of HMs, it's just the time.

The first time I found out that HMs went to the Marine Corps was in Corps School, many years ago. Though, back then we weren't in the current deployment rotations, nor in Iraq.

Furthermore, I do not believe it hurts the Navy's ability to recruit good HMs. Some of the personnel coming in that don't get with the Marines are just as ticked as those that go with themeven when they don't want to. I'm glad that I've had the ability to serve aboard Ships and the Marine Corps!

[The_Dirty_Name]

Originally posted by Da-Chief: “What does this mean to you? If you cannot pass the FMSS Screening to attend the school due to injury etc.. You will be processed for ADMIN SEP." End quote.

What does ADMIN SEP mean? Does it means that if you fail in FMSS you are out of the Navy?

This is a very interesting thread.

I voted for all personal to take FMSS.

Why?

The wars have been going on for some time and the Marines need Corpsman.

I have read that sometimes Corpsman000 have been sent east and put into a greenside outfit without FMSS. Granted this could be false, dunno.
If this is true, then FMSS should be given to all if Corpsman may be put into the war zone.


What Da-Chief wrote about civilians taking medical jobs from Corpsman is news to me. Very intriguing and shocking. I guess things are changing.

[DOCSpanky]

I think it should be mandatory for both male and female. In my time it was a way to get points on advancement. So I tend to be skewed in my view of 8404's. I was a 0000, and I spent far more time in the field than almost every 8404 we had.

DOCSpanky

[Navycameron]

What would disquilify you from going into fmss. I have had waivers for metal in my ankle and metal in my foot. These don't effect me from doing anything but would that prevent me from going into fmss. I have heard that if you are fit for active duty then I will be able to get into fmss because I really want to go.

[dustmans]

I think Poolzer does have a good point, you really don't have a ligitmate "no" answer on your poll. I do know some clinic side corpsman who are looking at this issue with extreme dread. These are issues that need to be passed on to Recruiters too, it sucks being that guy who joins the Navy to go on a ship and being sent out with the Marines and not being warned at all by the Recruiter.

[DOCSpanky]

FMSS is good, I served on board both Ship FFG7 S.E. Morrisson, and green side MCSFCO NAS Keflavik, Iceland, and standard blue side at hospitals and clinics.

FMSS, and most other HM NEC's for that matter, are useless if continuous follow on and continuous training is not conducted afterwards. You become what most 8404's were in my time, which is folks getting "free points" on exams. As a 0000 I easily tripled the time in field of almost every 8404 at my last two commands. Volunteering to go to the field when they could not get enough 8404's ( legitimate reasons, to ludicrous butt kissing) to cover an exercise or training evolution. They all sat around kissing butt's to get advanced, and I put my arse in the field and covering jobs that I was in no way technically qualified to do (X-RAY, SAR, MEDEVAC) but took it upon myself to be the BEST DAMN HOSPITAL CORPSMAN I could be. Hang the evals, spotlight projects, and advancements. I took pride in the fact that the ER doctors were begging me to re-up, cause they had few else they wanted to have around when the proverbial POOP hit the fan.

Now, I somewhat digress, I saw where someone mentioned qualifying with the M-16 (this was a rare occurrence in my time, 8404's learned it, but few if any could field strip and properly clean an M-16 within 6 months of FMSS, in 8 years I was offered the opportunity to qual with the M-16 exactly one time. I backdoored my opportunities to qual by going out with the SEABEE's often.), have we finally realized that our current adversary cares not for the Geneva convention, and we consequently are allowing HM's to go to the field better equipped to defend themselves?

DOCSpanky

[psencik1950]

It's a little different today than during Nam. You did volunteer to go in the Navy, 4 years instead of 2 if drafted. They did say in boot camp that HMs went with FMF. You got 6 choices on your dream sheet, if you put HM or DT on #6, you were probably going to "A" school. If you busted A school, you got orders for DaNang at the port. This was 1968, we were losing a lot HMs - 620+ KIA out of 2500+ Navy KIAs during the Vietnam war.
I guess they threw darts to decide who went to FMSS, and whether directly out of A school or after approx 7-8 months at a NH or wherever.
They then sent you directly or to one of the Divisions or Wings. I went to Kaneohe with 1st MarBrig. In general, stateside duty sucked. Being in the military was not looked upon very highly by a whole lot of people in late 60's, early 70's. Pay sucked real bad too, esp. in somewhere like Hawaii.
One day in late 70, they came down with 18 sets of orders for Nam FMF - the next day there were 9 of us at the HMCM's desk with request for transfer to Nam. He got on the phone and we followed them after 2 weeks. Went in 71, it had settled down by then, but I'm proud to say that I went.

It's a different world now from reading the postings with all the info about what to expect from each turn.

I stayed in the business, was an industrial medic for 8 yrs, went to RN school, have been an ER nurse for many years and now I have just completed Family Nurse Practitioner at 56 yoa. Back to doing what I did as an HM3. The nursing board told me in 72 that I had been trained in practice of independent medicine (8404) which was outside the legal realm of nursing.

[DOCSpanky]

Sadly green seems to be the direction this ship is headed right now. I hate it, but the "Global War on Terror", is not gonna be fought on the high seas..... It's gonna be fought in the Deserts & Jungles of the world. Until the day the Marine Corps receives their own medical detatchment, the Navy will continue, in ever increasing numbers, to supply them Corpsmen.

Seagoing, squadron based, and pure blueside Corpsmen especially males are going to continue to become more the rarity than the norm.

I think its wrong that women are not in combat, I think they should be out there standing shoulder to shoulder with the men. After caring for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam vets and former POW's from all these conflicts, there is nothing they can do to a woman that is any more horrific and or de-humanizing than what I have seen with my own eyes done to men.

[DeeDee]

I wholeheartedly agree DocSpanky

[old navy]

Spanky said,
"Seagoing, squadron based, and pure blueside Corpsmen especially males are going to continue to become more the rarity than the norm."

When the United States needs to project her power around the world, it will be done with sea power. Nothing calms a situation better than a carrier or amphibious group on the horizon. When ships go to sea, Corpsmen will go as well.

[Drummond]

Training all corpsmen to work in the field sounds great, and knowing a little more about medicine can't hurt, even if it is an area you may not see much. But just from what I've seen in training and in the corpsmen just coming out of training over the past year, I think this is an awful idea, if only because I have absolutely no faith in the Navy's ability or willingness to pull it off.

Making A school self-paced isn't inherently a bad idea. Neither is taking corpsmen out of hospitals in favor of putting them more exclusively on ships and in the field. Neither is familiarizing them all with the USMC and the field.

But when you give absolutely no support to a pitifully understaffed training command, self-paced A school starts pushing corpsmen to the fleet who can't even take vital signs. When you accept that level of training and get rid of the time a HM may spend in the hospital learning in a relatively relaxed clinical setting, you compromise his ability to practice medicine even further (if not at corps school or the hospital, where are they supposed to learn?). And when you decide to put that many people through FMSS - a couple of rather small commands - all you're going to do is turn field med into just another part of the corpsman pipeline to which the Navy clearly doesn't want to devote much money or personnel. I learned a lot at field med, and I simply can not believe that its quality won't be massively compromised by accommodating this policy.

I think someone needs to take a step back and think a little about mission accomplishment before coming up with more fancy new missions not to support.

But as for the idea itself.. making every corpsman ready to serve with the USMC if needed? Hell yes. I just hope they're actually ready.

[8404]

Dirty Name:

ADMIN SEP means 'Administratively Separated' = Discharged from the Navy. Sent home!

[The_Dirty_Name]

Dirty Name:

ADMIN SEP means 'Administratively Separated' = Discharged from the Navy. Sent home!

Roger that, and noted for future reference.

[Poolzer]

Seagoing, squadron based, and pure blueside Corpsmen especially males are going to continue to become more the rarity than the norm.


I will continue to defend the true side, blue side Navy to comments such as this.


The Navy will not let the green side demand shorten the Navy's core community of HM's that support their mission. They will deny green side billets if a blue side billet that is equal to it is in need. Case in point, CASEVAC. Marines want to buy 8401 billets to replace the 8404's flying CASEVAC but the Navy is struggling to fill its own blue side squadron's with us (due to the standards needed to be an 8401).

Rather than have 1-2 AVts per squadron, they're going to 2+ SAR/AVT's to support the MEDEVAC mission of the carrier group. HSC commands may have up to 5 SAR/AVTs to support the detachment regime.

Once we fill all our blue side billets, the green side will open up and be filled (there are other issues as well, money, politics etc obviously as well). For the mean time we have key positions within the corps to train the 8404's on the west and east coast.

[schirling_rules]

I think it's awesome to make all males go through FMSS. Let's face it, your average 0000 on his first tour his pretty worthless besides vitals and such. But it does bring up the point that there are a lot of green side corpsman, usually those with an infantry battalion, who hate it and feel they were suckered into it. I think FMSS is a good general extension of corps school, but let's keep the grunt spots to those who actually want to be here. Some Corpsman love the hospital, for some crazy reason, and their sea to shore rotation should be kept with the blue side. Remember, just because you get through FMSS doesn't mean that you'll do well with the greenside. A lot of that training is not an accurate represantation of how it really is.

[The_Dirty_Name]

Insightful post HM3.

I was thinking that there are plenty of jobs on the blue side for the Corpsman that resembles the 8404.

For example, what if a Corpsman wanted to do Search and Rescue or EOD?

Post FMSS would they get a shot at these C schools?

I know that Big Navy tries to fell the ratings that need to be filled the most. If the Marine Corp needs battlefield medics big time, then FMSS graduates will be placed there right?

Are there certain criteria that allows FMSS graduates to go to a C school if they do really well in FMSS? For example they score outstanding on every test and they wish to go BUDs (to become Spec War Corpsman), will Big Navy allow this?

Do you set down with a career counselor and talk about this stuff during FMSS? If not, when?

Before you get a shot at say… Search and Rescue do you need to do a tour of duty in the Middle East first?

I am confused to how thinks work post FMSS.

[8404]

The_Dirty_Name

yes, ADMIN SEP means administratively separated from the Navy. Sent home.

I believe it's the physical part of FMSS that most people have difficulty with. Navy bootcamp is not sufficient to get people in shape for FMSS. My son actually got out of shape when he went to Navy bootcamp. Prior to leaving for bootcamp, he was running 6 and 8 mile marathons, weight lifting, one handed push ups, sit-ups while people sat on his back etc..

FMSS is physically demanding because you will be serving with the Marines and possibly in a combat zone. You have to be as in shape as the Marines and their bootcamp is all physical training.

[JRSmith91W]

Dose this mean now that if you complete FMSS they will allow you to take the NREMT-B test. We all know 68W are NREMT-B cirt before they leave AIT. Now that the Navy is making all Corpsman go through FMSS will they fight for them to take the NREMT???

[Da-Chief]

Nope No NREMT-B.. it is mission specific.

You have to understand everything you learn in NREMT-B has not use when you are in the field with the Marines. None.. You don't have the equipment etc.. the only thing of use is the A&P so you know what your clamping etc..

We work way over a NREMT-B when in the field. Way over.. B's do not start IV's and pass meds if needed etc.. etc. etc.. which we do as HM's..

V/R
HMC

[JRSmith91W]

Nope No NREMT-B.. it is mission specific.

You have to understand everything you learn in NREMT-B has not use when you are in the field with the Marines. None.. You don't have the equipment etc.. the only thing of use is the A&P so you know what your clamping etc..

We work way over a NREMT-B when in the field. Way over.. B's do not start IV's and pass meds if needed etc.. etc. etc.. which we do as HM's..

V/R
HMC

That’s what I mean. I have work a lot with HMs and they do not get the recognition they deserve. I know while in the Navy having you NREMT is not all that important, but its nice to have for HM once they hit the "World". As a medic I can get a job with most hospitals or EMS services because of my NREMT-B crit I got while in AIT. For HM they would have to take some sort of school to obtain there NREMT-B. HM who at least attend FMSS should be given the chance to take the NREMT-B. Heck in the Army if you attend the Special Operations Medical School and pass you can take you NREMT-P crit. It really ticks me off that these great HM do not get the same chances as Army medics.

[8404]

My Corpsman son took those 'extra' courses at 29 Palms and has both EMT certifications and his instructor certificate. Plus his audiology certification. He reports in October 1 for advanced radiology.

[JRSmith91W]

My Corpsman son took those 'extra' courses at 29 Palms and has both EMT certifications and his instructor certificate. Plus his audiology certification. He reports in October 1 for advanced radiology.

See thats cool. As long as the Navy is offering these Corpsman to take the extra coruse to get there EMT-B and if possable IV crits. I Not everyone who enlist wants to be a lifer...those of us who chose to become lifers then NR's and other crits become useless. I just want to see those who servied and now want to go back into the world have every opertunity to get a good job. Giving HM's the chance to take the extra classed to allow them to take there NR is a step in the right direction. Maybe once they marge the Army and Navy Medic school they will them offer the NR right from HM A school

[Xraydoc]

Send em all. Male, female hell both. On that I have my FMF pin from the wing and the Sea is were it's at. Manoverboard, GQ, Main space fires, HMMM want to go back.

[AndiRRT]

i'm a chick, though. I doubt I could make it through USMC. But I am crazy enough to try it. haha

Ps---isn't it OOOOO-Rah?!

[8404]

AndiRRT;

That it is; OOOOO-Rah you got it right. You can do anything that you set your mind to and have the, "want to".

Oh, by the way, you say you're not photogenic? Girl, you need to see my picture. Now that is a healthy OOOOO-Rah. grin

You do need to fill out your profile on here with some more information. Maybe an introduction.

[AndiRRT]

I tried to from home, and was having technical difficulties. Just bought a new computer a month ago w/ Vista on it and all the sudden windows shut down. It would let me get on the internet but that is all. I will work on it tonight from work. hahaha. I'm a tough girl, but I don't know if I am USMC tough. We'll see. the man is working w/ me on PT starting tomorrow. I might end up divorced. lol:err:

[8404]

No, no no, divorce is not in my vocabulary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I met my wife in seventh grade girl and have been married for 32 years. Success is continuing to evolve with each other, communication and sacrifices. No changing of spouses like we change our clothes. lol

I wish you the very best on your PT and all of your future endeavors. You have the world at your finger tips from which to choose what path you want to take.

Choose wisely.

[AndiRRT]

No, no no, divorce is not in my vocabulary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I met my wife in seventh grade girl and have been married for 32 years. Success is continuing to evolve with each other, communication and sacrifices. No changing of spouses like we change our clothes. lol

I wish you the very best on your PT and all of your future endeavors. You have the world at your finger tips from which to choose what path you want to take.

Choose wisely.


AWWWWW. Thanks. No, I won't divorce. we have only been married 7 years, but he is my world. Plus I can rough him up a bit when he gets out of line. lol. He is trying to get my soft self ready for boot camp and did the DI thing, getting in my face and yelling and I cracked up, so he said he is gonna be extra hard on me to keep me from getting into trouble. I get the feeling he is grooming me for the Marine Corps. lol

[AM2]

i am really torn on this subject

. on one hand i think its a good idea for all corpsman to recieve the FMF training to better them for IA billets and the combat medic role. better to have and not need than to need and not have.

on the other hand i think that it is miss leading to people looking to enlist as corpsman.

especially women who want nothing more than to be a "nurse" and are never told about the changing navy and corpsman community.

my wife signed up as a corpsman with the $10k bonus. now she is slotted for an FMF school. a position listed as a tottally different contract and a $20k bonus. i just think that if the navy is gonna change a rate so dramaticly they have a responsibility to get that information to the future enilsted. not with hold the information and definatly not keep recruiting people under the old programs and incentives. only to inform them later they now fall under the same rules and responsibilites as the $20k enlistment contract but have to take a $10k loss on top of doing someting they would have never enlisted to do.

*Edited

[AM2]

oh and one more thing. i saw the topic come up about women serving on the front lines and noone understanding why they were only allowed to serve in support of combat missions and not on them. well from what i've read its mainly due to the fact that the very few women that end up in combat zones are facing danger from both sides.

they are surrounded by thousands of men in there own units that could just as likely do them harm as any insurgent. i'm talking about sexual assaults. thats what keeps women off the front lines. thats what the insurgents could do to a woman that they could not do to a man. thats what keeps the media shouting at getting women out of war.

sexual assault is a very touchy issue in this country and can make lots of bad PR for the military. it has been a long known fact that women can perform just as well and often times better than men do in stressful situations. women and children have always been a target in war zones throughout the ages. think of the most barbaric groups in history and what they have traditionally done to women and children. they have a much higher awe factor when injured of tortured than men do. making it easier for the media to lose support and heart for a war. perfect targets for insurgents aiming for just that purpose. fear.


*edited

[old 1/6 Doc]

AM2, with all due respect to you, you should have known how the recruting works, I am sorry that you feel that you and your wife made a mistake joining one of the best rates in the Navy but as you said in previous post needs of the Navy comes first. Now correct me if I am wrong but I belive that all reservist are to attend FMTB upon completion of Corps school then report to their respective duty stations. Anyway I hope things work out for your wife and she will need your support during all of this. As to the Marines need to have their own medics, they would not know how to act without DOC beside them taking care of them were ever they are, and that is the way it should stay.

[citrus]

AM2 Marines would NEVER hurt or mistreat their Corpsman AKA DOC. You have been watching too many movies on the love sofa when you should be running with and becoming a Marine, the men and women your WIFE will be serving with! You ask any woman or man Corpsman if they ever felt unsafe or neglected around THEIR MARINES, your wife will bond more with her Marines then her own family. Nobody but with a deathwish on this earth will mistreat a Corpsman a WOMAN Corpsman along with that.

[AM2]

citrus i meant no disrespect but I've been in the navy for 6 years and have served with both marines and sailors in that time. i am under no disillusions of the presence of evil nor the indifference of good men.

in regards to my physical fitness and couch potato status. I'm inclined to defend myself by saying i have been doing the navy seal buds preparation for the past three months to stay in shape.

i do support my wife 100% i know she will make a damn good corpsman. a rate which i have the utmost respect for.

i was referring to articles i found regarding incidents of rape and sexual harassment in the military period not just combat zones. if you don't believe it is a major issue type in "rape in Iraq" in google and you can do the same research i did my friend.

i do not post or speak for that matter without doing my research first.

they are men just like you and i and they are just as imperfect as the good lord made us all. i am not trying to scare anyone or change there minds about going nor am i against females serving in combat zones. they should just not be mislead into it. i have made another post saying how i feel about the recruiting effort also which is partly where this stems from. while navy recruiters have always mislead to get the job filled. never have i heard of them signing someone up to serve in a combat zone without knowing it and thats exactly what is happening. thanks for your time and sorry about any hurt feelings.
as always
V/R
AM2

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0125-08.htm

*edited

[AM2]

pay especially close attention to the part where it says: "Women are being left in the same units as their accused attackers and are not receiving sexual-trauma counseling." its like they are not only turning a blind eye to it they are condoning it.

[8404]

AM2 Marines would NEVER hurt or mistreat their Corpsman AKA DOC. You have been watching too many movies on the love sofa when you should be running with and becoming a Marine, the men and women your WIFE will be serving with! You ask any woman or man Corpsman if they ever felt unsafe or neglected around THEIR MARINES, your wife will bond more with her Marines then her own family. Nobody but with a death wish on this earth will mistreat a Corpsman a WOMAN Corpsman along with that.

Gentlemen; let's stop the "mud slinging" and hold a respectful exchange of information. Let's honor each of our members with mutual respect.

Citrus; there have been incidents of "rape" and "sexual harassment" within the ranks of the military. AM2's link depicts two instances of such. I myself have witnessed "harassment" in the military for having a 'faith' different from most. Imagine that!

I agree, for the most part and according to history, the Marines do try and take care of their Doc's.

AM2: As for the recruiter not providing full disclosure, well, you and I both know that recruiters have a bad reputation for not telling the whole story. This is not new, they have been guilty of this for quite a few years. I don't believe this will change any time soon.

I also don't believe the Department of the Navy will change anytime soon; about the Marines providing their own medics. Navy Corpsman have been serving with the Marines for decades and is a highly respected tradition.

It's unfortunate that some people have joined the military, not expecting to go to war, or who have joined and were mislead by their recruiters. I can appreciate your concern for your wife. When my son informed me he wanted to join the Navy, as a Corpsman and get his medical certifications, I told him, expect to go to war. That is what Corpsman do, during wartime.

I had a friend who wanted to be a heavy diesel mechanic in the Marines. Well, he did become a mechanic, but he was repairing typewriters!

When it comes to the military, the possibility of going to war is highly probable, regardless of gender. However, I would suggest to follow olddoc1's advice from his post earlier today.

We certainly wish your wife the best and trust everything will turn out as you wish.

We also, want to thank you for your service, to us and our great nation.

"fair winds and following seas"


Respectfully;
8404

[AM2]

8404 i appreachiate your thoughts and your respect and you have mine as well.

i was under no disillusions of my wife being activated or deployed. i knew the possability and fully expected it. my concern is the fact that the navy has taken what was once a specialty for those corpsman who wanted to serve in combat zones and reap the honor and respect of it and made it the standard without telling anyone.

thats how you get women who sign up to be "nurses" and get sent out to be combat medics. i just think that it should be a priority for the navy to get that information to the recruiting stations and thats why i posted another reply about needing a change in recruiting stations communications with the fleet and implementing changes.

i'm sorry 8404 but just because we all know recruiters lie and mislead does not make it right. i am not posting here to have a negative effect on your comunity or even spread discontent. i am just trying to get that information that was withheld from us out to the masses.

they should be telling you at the recruiting station that now all corpsman are combat medics and will be expected to serve as such when called for. it would save alot of the young women wanting to just be "nurses" from making a decision that was not in there best interest.

*edited

[Corpsman77]

Reading a large wall of text makes my head hurt.

[8404]

Being a former Marine, I knew Corpsman served with the Marines. I didn't really know anything about whether they volunteered for that duty or were ordered their.

When my son was joining the Navy, he was told by the Chief at MEPS going "green" (Marines) was strictly voluntary. So yes, I empathize with you that the recruiters were and are misleading. We know that here on this site. The owner of this site knows that as well. He is a recently retired CPO Corpsman and former instructor at the Naval Hospital Corps School in Great Lakes, IL.

With regards to your statement: "I am just trying to get that information that was withheld from us out to the masses." I believe you have accomplished your mission. At least on here. However, we are well versed on that subject. Instructors at the Corpsman school have to deal with recruiter issues with every class that comes in.

In order to effectively get the word, "out to the masses" you could write the MCPON or your Senator or Congressman.

R/S

[8404]

Corpsman77:

Take two aspirin and call us in the morning. lol

[AM2]

8404 thank you very much again for your response. i posted the information here because i have a lot of respect and appreachiation for this website.

after all it is here that i found out what i know. it was scattered and found in 5 -7 pages of posts however. i just wanted to make it a little easier to find for awhile.

i will be directing all the corpsman i know to this site for that very reason.i think it is a wonderful service to the members of this community.

i think i will definatly take your advice and write my congressman.

[DeeDee]

I have to throw in my "two cents" on this topic

I am a USAF veteran - and I was a victim of sexual harrassment in my VERY short military career - it IS something that happened and unfortunately my chain of command (ALL MALES) did NOTHING to protect me or to punish the men who harrassed me. I had to deal with those men on a daily basis until my discharge. It wasn't easy and needless to say when you are dealing with your superiors you don't really have anyone to turn to.

citrus - it DOES happen - this doesn't mean it WILL happen but you need to understand that no one is perfect and sometimes bad things do happen - not all men are CHIVALROUS and treat women well.

AM2 - your research in support of the career field your wife is persuing is commendable - she needs to go into any career with her eyes open - I SALUTE YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT OF HER DECISION.

Gentlemen - keep in mind we all have opinions and we (THE CORPSMAN.COM STAFF) want you to have the freedom to express your opinion BUT keep in mind when it becomes a fist fight complete with name calling WE WILL CLOSE DOWN THE THREAD unless things calm down and straighten up (YOU GUESSED IT I AM THE MOTHER HERE) :not:

I have my opinion and believe me you will get to read it ALL THE TIME but I don't want to see any nastiness going on. We are all here to support each other. Keep that in mind when you feel the need to FLAME SOMEONE.
I am now stepping off my soapbox :rmad:

V/R
DeeDee

[Corpsman77]

Oh my... Dee Dee.. the font. AHHHHH.

[DeeDee]

well didn't want you to get another headache so I made it easier to read :D

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

oh and one more thing...

I hate to think I'm beating a dead horse or throwing gasoline on a smoldering fire, but here is 50 cents of my own "opinion" on this.... (sorry "Mom")

AM2,

As you are aware, each community in the Navy has its own twist and beliefs on what it is to be true Navy. What you may not be aware of is that your postings today were rather insulting to a good number of members (Me in particular) and a good number of people that we members tend to care about. So even if you were "innocently" just speaking your mind or saying your piece, you were also insulting a good number of us. Corpsman.com is NOT a typical free-for-all web blog and I never want it to be that way. We try very hard to give everyone proper guidance to steer them in the right direction and to be helpful to all who request it. This is somewhat evident in my reply to your "FMF like it or not?" posting yesterday. Even though you are an AM2 in a HM community area, we still welcomed you and started to provide some help for you and your soon-to-be HM.

http://www.corpsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12552

As a PO2, surely you have heard hundreds of sailors complain about "Well, my Recruiter told me..." It appears your wife is now a "victim" of that old complaint. My standard input for sailors who complain to me about Recruiters is that even if the guy did put a nice spin on whatever he said, unless his actions broke the rules/law, I tend to lay most the blame for a bad contract with the recruit. The recruit should have done more homework before signing their name to a binding contract. If the Recruiter acted improperly/illegally, then that is a different story and the contract could probably be voided. Unfortunately, too many people spend more time shopping for a car than they do planning their Navy career. Do you just walk onto a dealer's lot and say give me that car, here's my money, where do I sign without any sort of background knowledge or preference on the car you are getting? I hear plenty of stories about sailors doing that with their career when they went to enlist and I really don't understand why they act surprised when they realize their deal was a lemon compared to other deals that were available to them.

However, if someone buys a car they don't like, who should they be upset with? The salesmen? The dealership? The automaker? Other people who like that car? Mechanics who like working on that car? Maybe the people who signed the contract should take a little more responsibility for their signature. Should the new owner destroy the car, make the best of the situation, or explore the possibility of getting a car they like? If your wife really wants to get a commission as a Nurse, let's work towards making that happen. If she is only interested in patient care nursing duties as a Corpsman then she will need to change her perspective because a lot more than that will be expected of her.

Your comments about rape and sexual harassment are totally irrelevant in the context in which you present them. So your wife is going FMF? Yes, there have been incidents of rape and harassment involving Marines AND FMF sailors. Your wife is joining the Navy, and yet there have been incidents of rape and harassment involving sailors. Your wife is joining the reserves, and there have been incidents of rape and harassment involving reservists. However your wife will be a civilian most of the time, but there have been incidents of rape and harassment involving civilians. Yes, tragic incidents of rape and harassment of females and males still happen in this world, but what has that got to do with your wife going FMF? That is like trying to say it is too dangerous to fly because the plane might crash, while ignoring the 43,000 plus annual deaths related to motor-vehicle use in this country. There are predators and victims in all communities and both can be either male or female.

But even if your rape comments had any relevancy, I would say your basic thesis is faulty in claiming "rape" is THE reason for the DoD's restrictive policy towards women in combat. I also take great offense to your statement that I, or any of my men, are "just as likely do them (women) harm as any insurgent". You appear to have a very negative opinon of your shipmates and men in general.

By the way, Navy Corpsmen ARE the Marine Corps' "own damn medics". Enlisting as a Corpsman and being surprised they serve with Marines is about as misleading as buying a manual transmission and complaining you were mislead because the salesman didn't say you needed to be able to drive a stick-shift. If you know about cars, it can be assumed you know a manual transmission requires being able to work a clutch. If you know about Corpsmen, it can be assumed you know they go to the field with or without the Marines. If you know about the military, it can be assumed you know people may shoot at you and you may be asked to go serve in combat.

Your anger appears to be misplaced and several of the comments you expressed are factually inaccurate as well. For instance, the Navy is not becoming the Marine Corps. Even from colonial times, the Navy has a long history of ground combat operations. Be it raiding parties of sailors from a ship, battles fought by sailors like the SeaBee's, or even sailors in the US Navy SEALS: the Navy fights and the location doesn't really matter. This is NOT a new concept or a changing Navy. Besides, would you be happier if your wife was assigned with a Navy SeaBee field unit and shipped to OIF/OEF/HOA, a Navy field hospital performing nursing duties in OIF/OEF/HOA, or maybe a Marine Corps air wing and working in a clinic? Maybe she could be on board a ship like the USS Cole or USS Stark, perhaps the USS Liberty.

It seems you are taking a classic Chicken Little "the sky is failing" position on all this. Training sailors to survive in a combat environment is not a new thing. Knowledge is power and the better trained your crew is the better they tend to do. (Sweat in training to avoid bleeding in combat.) Since the USS Forrestal, all sailors are to go through basic damage control "just in case." HM, DT, and RP have been going to FMSS/FMTB for decades to learn the basics of field duty: be that field duty with the Marines, Navy SeaBee's, a Navy field hospital, or even the Army. With the latest round of ops (OEF/OIF/HOA) the Navy has been sending hundreds of volunteer and "volun-TOLD" sailors of all rates to attend Army training to learn basic field skills and combat survival techniques. Even if they are flying a desk and pushing a pen the Navy wants the people in country to know the basics "just in case". Your wife's orders to attend FMTB does not guarantee she will serve with a Marine unit. Your wife not going to FMTB does not guarantee she will not serve in the field or with the Marines.

Recruiters are people too. They have all the faults we have and a difficult job to do. Some are dishonest it is true, but others are just sailors trying to do a job the best they can. Not all sailors know about all programs. Some sailors honestly believe bad gouge or hold biased opinions about certain programs. I am sure you have had a buddy who was sincerely trying to help, but gave bad advice or was unaware of a critical detail. Maybe he told you what he would do instead of what you should do. How many people at Corspman.com learn something new, seek clarification, pass a rumor, kill a rumor, debate an issue, share opinion, provide an update, etc. The same is true for the sailors assigned to Recruiter duty or any other position in the Navy.

No one knows everything there is to know and sometimes they will make an honest mistake when doing their job. One thing I repeat over and over, is do your homework to get what you want. Read the rules and regulations for yourself and make it happen. You may discover you know more about how to do it correctly than the person behind the counter and the easier you make it to do their job, the more likely it is you will get what you want.

Damn I can be long winded. In the meantime, you may think about editing some of the comments you've made and the tough task of trying not to click 'send' in the heat of the moment. Feel free to send me a PM if there is anything you would like to clarify.

With all that behind us, what is it that we can do for you? What career objective is your wife hoping for that we may provide guidance towards achieving? Maybe your wife can browse around and ask a few questions of us directly.

[Corpsman77]

See? That is a clear, concise, lucid response... without the wall of text. ;)

Thank you, Chief.

[DeeDee]

HMC-FMF-PJ - stated very nicely and done in a manner not to elicit negative reaction. Wish more people would think before they hit the Post button.

Thanks
DeeDee

[Da-Chief]

Jeez what I miss?? A fight A fight?? Friday Night Fights?? I have my popcorn!!
:-)

Thanks HMC!! As usual a very "EDUCATED" response.

Thanks Shipmate.


HMC

[AM2]

i have tried to edit all my posts in this thread to make them non abrasive for lack of a better word and still informative and easier to read. my apologies to anyone offended by my choice of words. it does not however make it any less true or important. i only care that people are aware. whether they like it or not. hopefully this will make people more receptive of that information and help them avoid buying a "lemon"...............

as always

V/R

AM2

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I sent you a PM

[DocBabb]

Ah, the "gray vs green" debate.
I'll tell you right up front that I wouldn't have made it through FMSS with my flat feet in 1965 (pre-orthotics!). As it was, going through an abbreviated orientation before deploying with a surgical team in 1981 (with 1981 orthotics) was a substantial physical challenge for me. Does that mean I shouldn't have been in the O.R. in Yokosuka when the medevacs came in in '68-'70? On the flight deck of Ranger '70-'73? On independent duty in a FF '77-'80?
I have the utmost respect... huge respect... for my 8404 brothers and sisters; but our rating encompasses any number of challenges, not all of which require good feet.

[kmax123]

Man, your wife doesn't want to go fmf? I had work really hard to get fms in my contract as a female and I am hella glad I did!

[Da-Chief]

I am going to close this thread now as the horse has been beaten into Dog-food.
;-)

We can re-hash in a month or so, some are commenting on people who have already done to fmss and are serving in a 8404 billet etc. :-)

This thread is closed.

HMC