Two military subjects in 1 day

[HM3_JD]

First, I read a report where Henry Kissinger says:
""If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he told the British Broadcasting Corp."
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/11/19/524507.html (http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/11/19/524507.html%29)

Then, I read this:
"Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 under a bill the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee says he will introduce next year.Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars."
http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/11/19/524535.html&cvqh=itn_draft (http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/11/19/524535.html&cvqh=itn_draft%29)
I'm not old enough to have been affected by the previous draft. Discussions on either?

[Small Town]

Yeah, I heard the same and I was paying close attention until the media quickly drops anything after an afternoon. When watching, Ithought about my little brother; he's 16 right now and bright as hell (Just lazy at times) and was against it but, then whenit wasmentioned that wars could possibly be better worked out because these are now our young citizen's lives, it didn't seem so much as a bad idea. Basically, if it were a bad enough need for men and war couldn't be avoided, a draft should bein effect; our country needs it. If you love where you live and the way you live, you'll fight when you're country needs you. Ido think it would dramatically change the way warcould behandled for the better. Just ma two cents...

[EJRaven]

Hey I don't think you need to worry about the draft, they offer defferments.

1) College Student
2) Get married
3) Have kids
4) Be only child

I think some politicians got away with like 6-8 deferments and turned out pretty good for them, I'm sure that people that don't want to serve will find their way out of it one way or another.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

HM3_JD wrote: "Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18

If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register (http://www.sss.gov/MUST.HTM)with Selective Service. This includes US citizen, most lawful immigrants, and illegal immigrants. The law (http://www.sss.gov/MUST.HTM)says virtually all males must register for the draft and keep the government informed of their address until age 26. A man who fails to register faces a fine of up to $250,000 and/or a prison term of up to five years. Men who fail to register by age 26 are permanently barred from many federal benefits like: student financial aid, federal employment, federal job training, and US citizenship for immigrants. Many states have additional penalties for failing to register.

Conscription ended in 1973 and Ford ended registration in the mid-70's, but Carter brought back registration at the end of his term. Carter also recommended that Congress amend the Military Selective Service Act to permit the registration and conscription of women as well as men, but Congress didn't go for it. Clinton asked for a review during his first term, but didn't support registering women.

Philosophically, any form of "draft" that mandates involuntary service from unwilling citizens runs counter to freedom and democracy. How are you "free" if the government can force you to leave your home & family to risk your life on the other side of the world?

Furthermore, the current draft is sexist in that is excludes able body females from national service. The whole idea of laws which distribute benefits and burdens on the basis of gender carry enormous risks. Such laws are often linked to sexual stereotyping -- particularly the "proper place" of women and their mythical need for special protection. Perhaps we would have more support for a law requiring females to be drafted and forced to serve involuntarilyas nurses, teachers,and waitresses. <sarcasm>

Moreover, all branches of the armed forces are currently forcing people out of the military who want to serve and paying others to retire early or otherwise separate. It is wrong on so many levels to mandate involuntary servitude in order to enhance staffing levels when you are depleting staffing levels by discharging volunteers who want to stay in the military or offering incentives for other volunteers to terminate their military careers early.

Do not allow yourself to be confused with smoke & mirrors or political doublespeak. This is not just about putting more people in uniform or "nice ideals" like giving back to the community.

I like military service and I like community service. I feel that in most cases, both the community and the individual benefits enormously from such service. I also know I don't want to be forced to lead or share a foxhole with an angry conscript constantly screwing up the works, while my combat proven hard charging HM2 is forced to retire because he didn't get promoted fast enough. In spite of what the pundits say, registration and conscription really isn't about service. I also find it extremely hypocritical that many of the biggest supporters of the draft NEVER SERVED (http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/articles/sidebyside-military.html)and their kids don't serve either.

[Small Town]

That's very interesting HMC-FMF-PJ, especially the link provided at 'served'. As I do see how screwed up it is, can't you just refuse the incentive? And along the lines of the "High Tenure", if you are given the material to study, there seems to be no reason that one cannot succeed, or is there information that I am missing?

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

You should not grab someone off the street and force them into uniform against his will...

...in order to fill a slot vacated by...

...a willing volunteer with years of experience who wants to stay in uniform and is performing well in his position.


In an all volunteer military, the theory of HYT makes sense. However, under a draft, it defies reason to force willing volunteers out of the military when you are forcing unwilling inductees into uniform.

Well Johnny I know you're a computer whiz , but Uncle Sam needs a mechanic because Sgt Crescent was unable to pick up SSgt so we kicked him out after 14 years of faithful service... We've decided that you are going to have to give up your civilian job of 5 years, leave your home and family, loose 75% of your pay, move to another hemisphere, change occupational fields,... and, oh, by the way, your new job involves combat where people will likely be trying to kill you. We know Sgt Crescent really liked his job, was proud of his work, is a combat veteran who performed well as an NCO, and wanted to stay; but he wasn't promoted from supervision to lower-management so we terminated his career. Welcome to boot camp.


Good afternoon Billy, we are forcing you to leave your civilian life because we paid Petty Officer Smith to leave the military early and we need to fill the vacancy we created. PO Jones and PO Williams declined the early out incentive, but we found enough people to take our money to get out of the military early that we need to force you into the military against your will to fill manning shortfalls.

While things are not that clear-cut & simple, its close enough to convey my point.

[oldavt]

A story from the draft, way back when. My cousin graduated from college with a degree in industrial engineering, and then was drafted in the Army. The army, flush with draftees, decided they needed cooks when his name came up. So that's what he did for his army service, not combat engineering or something utilizing his particular skills and training, but getting up at 0400 to cook bacon and eggs. Happened a lot with draftees. Not particularly efficient or useful except 'perhaps' during times of world wars.

Of course, driving experienced, capable petty officers out of the service because they don't get promoted doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. If they get bad performance evals fine, but lots of very good and highly trained people don't want to be supervisors, they just want to do their jobs.

[Small Town]

Your point is clear HMC-FMF-PJ,But it may be that they need more people on the front lines than they do people commanding them. I do agree that things don't seem to make sense and to have someonemostly unskilled and unpassionate about their new job, come in and expected to do well isn't even plausible. I may not know the reason for why this system is in place and would anticipate a forward answer, but I'm sure it's in place for a good reason; but if things are really messed up as Oldavt described with his story, maybe a draft board with administration skills ought to sort civilians out by their skills and education so that the "High Tenure" isn't a complete waste of a fine superior.