Recon?

[Small Town]

I was wondering how it all worked. Would I go FMF and then FMSS and then to the recon training? I did some looking over it in the NKO, but I only got so far. I keep in shape often, P.T.'ing every day, once with calisthenics to max and then with a run with 20 lbs weights for 3 miles. If any one has any info on this and what the schedule looks like for this feild, I'd appreciate anything given.

[Da-Chief]

Goes like this..

Boot Camp

Corps School where you get screened for Recon

FMSS

Pipeline for Recon, bunch of different schools, HMC-FMF-PJ can tell you a bit more as it is his baily-wick.. (SP?) I am out of the loop on the Corps Side now, he is currently in the thick of it.

;-)
HMC

[Kaymanism]

Pipeline for RECON can be found at this link

http://www.sarcforum.com/nec/pipeline.htm

Training and course schedule can be found at this link

http://www.ewtgpac.navy.mil/n8/basic_reconnaissance_course_info.htm]

Let us know if you need anything else.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Da-Chief is correct with the basic game plan, but sometimes the exact order fluctuates.
() Recruit Training (Boot Camp)
() Hospital Corps School (HM)
() Field Medical Service School (8404)
() Basic Reconnaissance Course
() Marine Combatant Divers Course
() Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman Dive Medicine
() Special Operations Combat Medic Course (18D Part 1) SOCM (8427)
() Basic Airborne Course
() Special Operations Medical Sergeants Course (18D Part 2) ADSOCM (8403)
() appropriate NAVLEAD courses, EMT-P certification, OJT, & in-service training


When you train, keep in mind that this is a marathon. Your Navy career could last 20+ years and you only have one body to use for the next 50-or-so years of life, so take care of it. Don't injure yourself or go overboard and forget the fitness gimmicks. You sweat in training to avoid bleeding in combat, but you won't do yourself or your Marines any good if you hurt yourself in the gym or on the track.

You will get plenty of abuse when you hit the pipeline. I don't think you need to carry extra weights during your runs, but that's me. A fast walk with a heavy pack is one thing, but running is probably a bad idea at this point. Knees and ankles are something to cherish and you don't know what ya got till there gone. And when your legs are gone, your career is gone - - not to mention the change in lifestyle.

How are your push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups & flutter kicks? You can try wearing some extra weight while doing pull-ups & push-ups. A tip on doing flutter kicks, keep your head up unsupported (above the surf) and your hands to the side (not under your ass).

How well do you swim? The Navy loves water and it doesn't matter if you go SEAL or Recon, a lot of time will be spent in pools and open water. There are several strokes you need to be able to do proficiently. I will also say that swimming in full uniform & boots is tougher than when wearing swim trunks and open cold salt water is much tougher than a warm fresh water pool.

However, the number one thing that gets you through the training is between your ears. Any instructor can grind you to exhaustion until your body fails, but will your mind give up? You know how physically tough the training is, but these courses are more a mental challenge than a physical challenge. The mental anguish is what makes people DOR. Everything else, as they say, is all mind over matter. If you don't mind, then it doesn't matter.

Physical strength and endurance is not what gets candidates through training. It is mental toughness. You must have the mindset to succeed and will to survive. They want to make sure you are the type of person that keeps going under the worst conditions when the odds are against you before they invest all that time & money to train you.

Here is a look at some of the physical requirements in front of you.
==========
Marine Corps Combat Diver Course (MCD)
Naval Diving and Salvage Training Center
https://www.npdc.navy.mil/ceneoddive/ndstc/index.cfm?fa=courses.usmc

Must possess a USMC 1st class swimmer qualification, per MCO 1500.52
Must obtain a USMC 1st class score of 225 on the Physical Fitness Test (PFT)
() Physical Fitness Test: Candidates must successful complete a physical fitness entry level test within 30 days of reporting to the course, which includes:
() Swimming 500 yards nonstop, utilizing the breast or sidestroke. The swim is conducted in UDT swim trunks, maximum time is 12 minutes and 30 seconds The swim is followed with a 10 minute standing rest
() Push-Ups: The candidate will have two minutes to properly execute a minimum of 42 push-ups. A two-minute rest follows
() Crunches: A minimum of 68 Marine Corps crunches must be executed in two minutes. A two-minute rest follows
() Pull-Ups: A minimum of 8 Marine Corps pull-ups. No time limit. A 10-minute rest follows
() Run: 1.5 miles: maximum time 11 minutes and 30 seconds
() 500 yard open water swim with mask, fins, utilities, and UDT vest using the tactical side stroke. Time limit: 15 mins

===
MCD Physical Training:
() Runs: 3-4 miles: 7 minute pace
() Calisthenics
() Swimming: Pool lap swimming without equipment (aerobic)
() Open water surface swimming with fins, full utilities LBV, rifle, and pack (employ 6 lbs. to simulate ammunition weight as a minimum.) Swimming speed 1 knot utilizing the combat side stroke
() Treading water: In the pool, with SCUBA equipment (5 minutes). Upon completion of treading water drill, the students must inflate their buoyancy compensators orally and swim to the shallow end of the pool
() Mask/Snorkel clearing to include recovery and clear from 12' pool on one breath hold
() Drown proofing
() Tread water with LBV, Rifle for (1 minute), upon completion of treading water students must inflate their buoyancy compensators orally and swim to the shallow end of the pool
() Perform tactical surface swimming while maintaining a minimum swim speed of one (1) knot, for distances of 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, and 10,000 yards.

==========
HM-8427 Amphibious Reconnaissance Corpsman
(Unofficial site full of good info)
http://www.sarcforum.com/nec/screening.htm

Physical Fitness Test required upon arrival at ARC Diving Medicine Course
Candidates will perform the following test in sequence as written and must be monitored by a SARC HM, SEAL, or qualified active US NAVY DIVER.

-In PT gear, complete a USMC PFT IAW MCO 6100.3b with a score of no less than 250. This test consists of :
-Max curl ups in 2 minutes
-Max pull/chin ups
-3 mile timed run

10 MINUTE REST

-In a swimsuit, swim continuously 500 meters utilizing the side or breast stroke in under 14 minutes.
-Immediately following, without the aide of the bottom, pool sides, or artificial floatation device, tread water for 30 minutes. The candidate shall keep his head out of the water during this entire period. i.e. No submersion/survival float.

10 MINUTE REST/CHANGE OVER

-In utilities or dungarees and boots, complete the level two test. This is a maximum effort for two minutes, with two minutes rest between each exercise. The minimum number of repetitions must be met.
- Push ups - 42
- Sit ups - 50
- Flutter Kicks - 20 (four count)
- Hello Dollies - 20 (four count)
- Mountain Climbers - 20 (four count)
- 8 Count Body Builders - 15
-Complete a 4 mile forced march/run with a 50 lb ALICE pack in 50 minutes or less

[Kaymanism]

Helloooo reality check :shock:

how does the radiology side compare to things :?

Going to go for a walk and rethink a lot of things...

[Small Town]

Alright, gotcha on the weights and running part. Yeah, I read alot of nutrition and watch what I do. I'm currently taking a supplement called Chondroitin/ Glucosamine. It's to help with the cartilage in the body and the synovial fluid secreted by your bursa sacs. Not that I have any problems with my knees, just I don't want to have one. I'm currently swimming every Thursday morning. I'm going to be honest, I AM NO SWIMMER. I can get to point A to B but not with the most grace. I just go about 6 in the morning and watch all the ARMY guys swim and try to copy what they do. Any other swimtips you can give for the distance runner? Thanks for the prior info.

[BronzeBow]

Here are some great video clips and info on the CSS stroke: http://www.stewsmith.com/css.htm

Let me know if you have any questions about this stroke, and I'll try to help.

[al2004]

If it's okay let me ask a couple of questions. MARDMIN 192/05 mentions an RMAT program prior to ARS/BRC and that there is opportunity for improving swimming. I know a lot of this translates into,hey we give you a few more weeks of a beating before you really start the pipeline. Does this apply to HM candidates as well? I believe the reserve pipeline starts off in San Antonio and is an RMAT type of deal. I was curious if this helps Marines and corpsman get ready for the pipeline. Anyone know much about this?

[Da-Chief]

I will wait for HMC-FMF-PJ to get back to you as he is doing I&I right now..

Hopefully he is lurking tonight!

;-)

HMC

[sylent_snyper]

HMC-FMF-PJ.... sent you a PM in regards to this topic.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

al2004 wrote: Does this apply to HM candidates as well? I believe the reserve pipeline starts off in San Antonio and is an RMAT type of deal. I was curious if this helps Marines and corpsman get ready for the pipeline. Anyone know much about this?

RMAT is pretty much a mandatory part of the pipelinefor most and yes it helps. Read the info already posted and browse the websites provided. Also contact the POC's listed on the websites or the (Recon/Dive/SEAL) "motivator" at A-School & FMSS for info. Some of the schools are more physically demanding, some are more intellectually demanding, most challenge your mental toughness to continue, and some just challenge your patience.

https://wwwa.nko.navy.mil/portal/page?paf_pageId=page14273

There is expected to be a huge jump in 8427/8403 manning and while recruiting efforts are sure to increase,standards will not be lowered.

[Da-Chief]

Hey HMC,

One thing, If the person you are trying to help doesn't havea NKO account, they cannot get to the page your were trying to list.

;-)


If you send me the info I can put er up..

I am also going to be creating a FAQ for some of the questions We get here continously..

Might you be willing to help out on it with Inst's etc?

PM let me know..

Thanks!

The other HMC ;-)

[Bear Wrestler]

Is the "Motivator" program something that is offered up front at A school, or is it something I will have to inquire about?

[sharkbomb]

When a corpsman enters the SARC pipeline, does it require extra years tacked on to their military contract? Is SARC geared more towards career navy rather than those with 5 year commitments?

[mmckay]

When a corpsman enters the SARC pipeline, does it require extra years tacked on to their military contract? Is SARC geared more towards career navy rather than those with 5 year commitments?

No... that is what I am looking at and it does not require any addtion to your contract... the one thing i was warned about it after your 5 years active you become and you become inactive you would have a skill that is currently in demand (and presumably will still be in demand) so you would be a lot more likely to be called up because they would need that skill. (If anyone knows this to be not true by all means say so this is just onething that I was cautioned on)

[The_Dirty_Name]

Wow, HMC-FMF-PJ, great info. :not:

I stumbled upon this thread after putting C-Schools into the search engine to see what would come up.

_
Right now I am doing a lot of training for HM 8427. A part time jobs worth. Keep in mind I have a long way to go. The good news is I have a lot of time.
I have some question, if you (or anyone else) would care to answer them. Thank You.

At NHCS will I be able to devote the time needed for SPECWAR PT? I’ll be there a good two months easy. I know Saturday and Sunday I can train the better part of the day, but during the week what do you think? Keep in mind, I did this at Radford University for two years (I was there two years). I stayed focused and did not ‘party’.
A known variable is that the style of the school is changing from self passed to lectures. I’ll start the school late this year or the first of 2008. I start boot camp 2007Sep26.
Also, regarding these dive motivators. How much to they help you prepare for SPECWAR? Seems to me that their job would be to make sure you are the best prepared for this great challenge. What else do they do?
Also, may Navy personnel swim in Lake Michigan?
I know there will be a few other hopeful SPECWAR sailors in NHCS. How many Sailors go through NHCS in a class? I am just curious about the support group and the number of potintial swim/PT buddies they may be there. A support group to learn from/ study with/ and motivate with/ would be huge for the training needed.

Again, Thanks.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

There should be plenty of time for personal PT, however, duty hours may require flexibility in your fitness schedule and do not allow your academics to suffer. I believe the Dive Motivators will focus on getting you in shape and you will do special PT sessions with them. They may also want you to take part in other nutrition or fitness programs.

I have no idea about swimming in the lake but I suppose you could if you really want to play in cold water. Why not try a local pool instead?

The number of candidates changes with each class but the Dive Motivators typically have a good group to work with. Someone else will need to answer this one.

Hopefully this sounds right: Benefit from others and help each other as you can, but learn to rely on yourself. That little voice in your head will be your biggest ally or worst enemy when fecal matter hits the fan during the pipeline. Most everything has team aspects, but what's echoing in your head when you are sore, cold, exhausted, and hungry is what determines the fate of most.

Good luck!

[The_Dirty_Name]

Thank you, for the reply.

Wrt the Lake. I was thinking about swimming in a different venue than the indoor pool (currently doing that now). Purpose: to get acclimated to the cold, navigating in a open body of water, longer swims. I would need a great swim suit to stay in during that time of the year.

I reckon the area has commercial opened circuit dive courses in the area. I would like (with a Sailor swim buddy) to do this, just for the base line knowledge and confidence. I have zero experience with scuba gear.
Maybe the Dive Motivators usually have this arranged for the students.

Thanks again.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

That's what I thought.

Its an okay idea, but don't go overboard with it.

As for civ dive classes, I don't think it should be a priority. In fact it is better for some people to come in with zero experience because that also means they have zero bad habits and zero things to unlearn. For certain people with certain skills this easier said than done and it is better to work with raw material than fight previous training. The Navy and Marines will want you to do things their way and often it will be VERY different from the civ way, so you make the call on that.

[The_Dirty_Name]

Roger that. Good point.

Thanks Again.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Just track me down in a year or so and let me know you made it.

[KNW]

I found this thread via search, and it was linked to in another thread, and instead of making a new thread I decided to just tack a question onto this one...

I have looked through this thread and have a very good idea about what the physical requirements are but what I am wondering is, what are the vision requirements? I have searched the internet and found varying information regarding this, and the acceptance of surgery prior to enlistment.

Thanks,
Kevin

[8404]

Kevin:

http://www.sealchallenge.navy.mil/swcc/req_vision.asp

Hope this helps and is what you are looking for:

"Vision Requirements http://www.sealchallenge.navy.mil/swcc/images/vision.jpgSWCCs are required to perform a variety of tasks that require a high vision aptitude.

SWCC candidates may qualify for PRK Refractive Surgery to correct their vision.

You can read more about the PRK policy on the BUMED PRK Refractive Surgery web site http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil.

Eyesight Requirements: Uncorrected vision can be no worse than 20/200 in each eye. Both eyes must be correctable to 20/20 (Reference; Manual of the Medical Department, P-117, chapter 15-105, paragraph 7a(c)). No waivers for deficiencies. (Reference; Manual of the Medical Department, P-117, chapter 15-105, paragraph 7a(c).

NOTE: BUMED waiver request: Reference Manual of the Medical Department, P-117, chapter 15-102, paragraph 3 and 3a.

For more information on current requirements, contact your local recruiter or reference Manual of the Medical Department, P-117, chapter 15-102, paragraph 3 and 3a."

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

The Manual of the Medical Department, P-117 (ie MANMED) sets the basic standard. Color deficiencies do not matter with some Navy jobs/NEC's but are No-Go's with others. Certain Corpsman slots and collateral duties require good color vision so you may need more than just blood red.

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http://www.corpsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17108#post17108