Navy Phasing out HM's in Hospitals..

[Da-Chief]

Talked about this before.. Well it's happening..

Info from Navy Times (http://www.navytimes.com/), I have been discussing this in the Scuttlebutt forums for some time, well the writing is on the wall now read this below, then come in and discuss it with us.
Cuts coming for corpsmen, other medical personnel

By Chris Amos (mailto:camos@atpco.com?subject=Question from NavyTimes.com reader)
Staff writer
The Navy plans to fill more than 2,000 corpsman slots with civilian workers by 2010.

The conversions — which will account for more than 8 percent of the Navy’s 25,000 hospital corpsmen — are intended make the Navy’s corpsman rate more forward-deployable, according to Guy Schein, spokesman for the Bureau of Medicine and Surgery (http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil/).

“If it’s a deployable asset, it has to have a uniformed person,” Schein said. “But if not, that position can be filled by a service member, civil servant or contractor.”

Schein said some of the corpsman slots slated for conversion are already vacant. But in cases where they are not, sailors will be allowed to transfer to deployable corpsman slots or to retrain in another rating.

He said he knew of no plans to separate corpsmen in slots slated for conversion.

Depending on their experience and location, civilians will be hired in civil servant pay grades between GS-4 and GS-11, or as government contractors, and will fill positions such as medical clerk, medical records technician, dental hygienist, secretary and practical nurse.

These conversions come as the number of Navy medical officers is slated to decline, a drop that comes in part because of a similar effort to convert some physician, dentist and nursing slots to civilian positions.

By the end of 2009, the Navy expects to have 5 percent fewer dentists, 3 percent fewer physicians and 1 percent fewer nurses than it has now, representing a total of 214 positions.
What are you views? We are becoming more and more a FMF Rating, right now today we only have 840 HM's serving on Ships, With the billets going away from the hospitals, you can see the writing on the wall. Get the word out. Remember though, we are to follow "ALL ORDERS" of those given to us that are lawful. Last I looked, going to FMSS, and serving with the Marine Corps were lawful orders.
In other words, if you can't hack it or don't like it and it is time for reenlistment, Don't reenlist. Don't come complaining etc if you just reenlisted. Someone who is in theater is looking for a backfill as they have done their duty, If you try to get out of orders etc, you will most likely be admin separated now, happens every day @ Corps School.
Also please don't believe the recruiters telling you FMSS, and FMF is optional, it is not, we are sending all "MALES" to FMSS right now who graduate. Remember though this is a school, and does not necessarily mean you will be sent direct to the FMF after. You can still get a hospital after school, but odd's are you will do a MAPI tour over in theater during your tour. We had people at Great Lakes who did "2" tours while on Shore duty.
What do you think? Come into the Scuttlebutt Forums and join in the discussion, vent etc..
Da-Chief.

[Poolzer]

Once again, Ive been placed on this earth to counter debate ideas even though I pretty much agree to what was said, but are great to bring up to make even more conversation. Remember, I think FMSS should be not only mandatory, but a refresher course for anyone that have been away from operational medicine more than 5 years.

That being said...

I think its going to be funny that when we're done in Iraq and pull out, there are either going to be a lot of HM's sitting on their ass doing nothing but annoying marines and each other, or thousands of civilians fired so we can have our pre-2003 jobs back. In 1991/2, after operation desert storm, they said the same thing as this article and we were going to stay operational, then a year later...all the shore billets filled back up and over HALF the green side HM billets were dropped.

Im not saying that you're wrong chief, but FMSS is still not required out of HM school for males because we're getting kids from there at avt school and graduating them out into the fleet or sending them on to 8401 or 8409 schools, all without FMSS. I have seen the numbers for the Jan and Mar 2007 and no one is going to FMSS for any of the aviation c schools. Im assuming other C schools are the same way.

just my 2 cents at the moment.

[Da-Chief]

Hey, I report on what needs reporting, Now if you ask my my "OPNINION" say after 30 June 2007, then you will geta earful..

:shock:

HMC

[Da-Chief]

As far as FMSS, this is a new requirement that just started earlier in November, so your right, you don't see them yet, I can tell you though that "ALL" orders out of our school now have FMSS Via the next command be it "C" School or whatever. Now If a C-School date is before FMSS, I can see going to the C-School, then off to FMSS..then parent command.

We shall see, All I know is what BUPERS told us and we are acting on it with the detailing crew in TN.

later

Da-Chief.

[doc_rueda]

pretty darn interesting.

At least they will be jobs available for those getting out and who already have the experience. Why lose time for trainning when they already have the finest they can hire ( who are looking to get out ).

[MAWDoc]

A greater concern that I have is thetransfer of 1st termers from a shore command, to FMSS, to the FMF without time on contract to be of use. I have seen 3 times in the last year where Sailors have come from say, Portsmouth Medical Center, through FMSS, and arrived for Type 2 duty with 6-12 months left on contract. This is unsat! What happened to obligated service extensions when executing PCS orders?! What this has done is given a young HN/HM3 all of the cards in the deck to deal with, and given him/her the leverage to deploy/not deploy pending reenlistment. I think that once orders are executed, you as the arriving Sailor OWE a minimum tour to the gaining command, because fellow Sailors who have already done their tour(s) in the sand/MEU are forced to pick up the slack. Just a thought...

Also, why are we sending 1st termers to shore duty at all???!!! I have got to believe that everyone who enlists today, or who has in the last 4years came in while the US has been engaged in combat operations in 2 or 3 theaters of operation, with the expectation and (maybe not desire, but acceptance) that they would bedeploying forward and participating in the GWOT on foreign soil. Offensive to some or not, you would have to be pretty dumb to enlist in any branch of the service in the past 4years and expect thatyou would not deploy to Iraq, Afghanistan or some other location...

Why are we taking that 18-20 year old general duty HM and DEMOTIVATINGhim/her at a CONUS Naval Hospital or clinic where they are receptionists, supply clerks,and vital signs techs more concerned (not on their own accord, but through their directorate/department goals) with MEPRS reports, third party collections,and JCAHO inspections than becoming skilled in their chosen profession??? Send them to the Marines, SeaBees, JTF or OCONUS hospital where they can be corpsman and not be constrained by patient contact rules governed by TriCare & JCAHO. Let these young docs learn their trade, not how to access CHCS, do End of Day processing and answer a phone.

So, hell yes I'm all for dropping the HM billets (with consideration fortechnicians like XRay, Lab, CT, PT, etc, where they are providing hands-on care and maintaining their skills) in the hospitals and clinics.

Just my 4 cents...

[DevilDoc]

Considering that I joined the Navy for the simple fact of becoming a Corpsman for the Marines, I can't say I have an argument against this policy. It sounds pretty good to me. Too many people whine and complain about thier job assignments, knowing full well when you sign the contract that there is a chance you will be sent off to war. If that is your fear....why the hell did you join the military? Given the opportunity to retrain in another rate, is more than fair. Sounds good. We don't want those around who don't want to be here anyway. You gotta give your heart and soul into being an FMF Corpsman! Nothing greater than being called "Doc" and knowing you are respected and loved! As a hospital Corpsman, you get very little if any respect. The Marines on the other hand, they will take care of us and we will take care of them. It's a given! I love my Marines! It's always a pleasure to serve beside the Strongest Fighting Force in the World! UUH RAH!

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I guess my opinion depends greatly on how I look at it: Chief, Corpsman, Patient, or Taxpayer?

I will say it is not something that makes me smile.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

[quote]"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded." [end-quote]

Farewell Address to the Nation, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, January 17, 1961 (former General of the Army (5-star) and WWII Europe's 'Supreme Allied Commander')

Of course earlier draft versions of the speech, Eisenhower used the term "military-industrial-congressional complex", and thus indicated the essential role thatCongress plays in all this; but, rumor has it, that the President removed the word "congressional" so as not to insult, incite, or discredit the legislative branch of the federal government.


One interested in history might also take the time to learn about former Marine BrigGen Smedley Darlington Butler (http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/HD/Historical/Whos_Who/Butler_SD.htm) between the years 1930 until his death in 1940. Butler was awarded the Medal of Honor twice during his 33-year career and, at the time of his death, he was the most decorated Marine in US history. However, the official biography (http://www.iiimef.usmc.mil/3rdMEB/Documents/Biography/bio_butler.htm)does not mention the speech on January 1931 that got him arrested (the first General arrested (http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/chron/civilwarnotes/porter.html)since 1862 during the Civil War) and ordered court-martialed by President Hoover, or one of the more notorious booklets ever written by a US general, or Butler's congressional testimony before the House 'McCormack-Dickstein Committee' in 1934.

[doc_rueda]

I would have to agree 100% with you on that. Every time I hear a complaint about deploying, I want to choke the hell out of that person.

Mission first. Where ever it may be, any place around the world, you will be sure that there will always be a force in readiness. Ready to crush the enemy's back, one vertabrae at a time.***relaxing now** Let it be known, a Hospital Corpsman will be in every part of it.

O' just let someone bad mouth about deploying today!!

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

On a similar note:

Per NAVADMIN 132/06: HM-8492, SpecOps Tech, and HM-8491, SpecOps IDC, are no longer "HM's" and will wear a trident on their arm where a caduceus once was. As of last month they have been consolidated into "SO 5326".

"SO" of course being the new Special Warfare Operator rating. The new rating symbol is basically the same design as the SEAL breast insignia only without the eagle.

[olddoc1]

:shock:Semper Fi, I have wondered how long this would take. Even in the 60's, the civilian medical community was extremely envious of Navy Hospital Corpsman training, duties and responsibilities. Mainly because we werean ecomonic threat to the nurse, technician force. First it was the APA who was insanely jelouse of pharmacy school since it was very classic and very through. Those of us who went to the classic curriculum at Portsmouth and the other school, whose name escapes me right now, were competent and well trained. There were only about 30 Registered Pharmacists in the whole Navy at that time. Wehad the responsibility for both outpatient and in-patient pharmacy. Admittedly things weresimpler in those days.The Nursing associations also looked at how we were trained, our responsibilities and duties and they were afraid that we could replace them in the service and on the street. Whenever our training was diluted, reduced or minimized, problems arose like they always will when there is not a real commitment to education, human resources and excellence. That is when litigation began to plague the medical field on active duty as well as civilian duty. Corpsman who do not have hospital experience may not qualify fora nursing license in many states.

How will the Navy handle civilian personnel problems when there are not enough nurses to do the civilian job now or their unions complain because they wrok to hard? Most nurses today are no long patient care nurses, just technicians.They wanted the status of physicians. By the way what the hell is a "nursing diagnosis"? That term in and of itself, reveals where the nurses are coming from. What will we do if there is a weapon of mass distruction unleashed in this country or what will happen if you are required to take aboard bedbound casualties at sea? To late to go back. We had a mandatory year of ward duty and rotated through all the major departments, became skillfull on the ward as well in the ER. Corpsman could be redirected or exchanged when needed with a reasonable expectation that they could get the job done.

I noticed in Katrina, the civilian medical community had trouble with basic things like clean drinking water, aux electrical power, medical improvisation and the scope of the disaster. They need us, not just on the battlefield, but also at home.

more later, I just think they have not thought this well enough, :shock:

[DevilDoc]

oldDoc1,

To answer your question regarding a "nursing diagnosis"....this is not a medical DX, because in the civilian sector, only a M.D. can make a medical DX. The nursing DX has to do with the entire scope of the patient and thier illness. It cannot contain the actual formal diagnosis, but rather some variation there of. For example, a nursing DX would read something like this: Impaired Mobility related to leg injury evidenced by patients inability to self ambulate due to partial loss of right leg.

Another example: Impaired skin integrity, related to immobility, evidenced by open wound on buttock.

I know these because I am in Nursing School presently. Nurses have to think in a whole different light. It's been hard to shift gears that way, having been a corpsman for a number of years. They don't intend to put nurses into environments where they will have to handle the sort of things you are talking about. Corpsmen will still fill those slots. However, there are nurses that can handle mass casualty type situations. Don't be mislead. There is so much training out there and specialty areas that there is a nursing function for everything. I agree with you on some points, such as how to deal with the water and electrical situations and juggling these kinds of things. Modern nursing doesn't teach you to adapt and overcome in those sorts of situations. That's where we come in. We have been trained for that. I am sure they will see to it, as much as possible, that the civilian medical personnel are not put into that sort of environment. But then again, how often do you see actual Hospital Corpsman that know how to adapt to those things? Unless they went to FMSS or have been in a long time, to where they were exposed to those situations, even they would have a hard time.

There is always good and bad to everything. We have to be willing to accept change. My issue with this whole thing is only that the government closes bases left and right, making budget cuts all over the place. Hiring civilian medical personnell is going to cost a hell of a lot more than the military personnell already doing these jobs. Why not spend a little more money on training our military people and leave them in the jobs. In the long run, the costs are lower.

I don't however, see any problem with all the Corpsman going to FMSS. I think it would be for the best, even if just for the training. It's very valuable.

[Small Town]

I'm a depper. About 3 months away from basic and I've been doing study of these feilds to get into. Doing my part in study and physical training to beone of the best; even though I'm not sure where it's going to take me. If I was to go FMF, the only thing that would bother me would be the uncertainty of my future career in the NAVY. I know what I want to accomplish in life, not sure that FMF is the way I need to go. If sent anyway, to me orders are orders and I'll just have to suck it up, do what I have to and then get the education I want in my own personal time. Education comes at a cost, I'd much rather make do with my situation than pay it out of my pocket. So in a nut shell, Uhh-rah!

[Da-Chief]

Small Town,

Very mature post you put up, wish most of my students were like you.

Hey Make sure if this is what you believe that you don't go NCS as you are not afforded the GI Bill etc..

Let me know if you have any other questions..

Da-Chief

[DevilDoc]

Smalltown,

My advice to you, put in for a C school you can use after you get out of the military. Even if you are FMF, having a C school under your belt, such as Radiology Tech., offers you alot more for your future than just having been a Corpsman with no NEC or an 8404 Corpsman (FMST). Trust me....all you get after you get out with these two are EMT Basic. Radiology Techs make great money and it's good when you get out of the service. Let the Navy pay your way!

My Senior Chief tells us all the time, you get back what you put in, but if you aren't getting anything back, then you are doing something wrong. Make sure you get yours!

UhhRah!

[A.R. Gomez]

sending all of those to field med? i think it's a great idea! but if the school has to change and be made even easier to accomplish this goal, then i say don't do it. i distinctly remember having weaker students hold on to my pack as i basically pulled them up the hills in Pendleton and i thought it was a complete joke that this was allowed by instructors then, i would hate to see the school lower it's standards further in the future.

as far as removing more HM's from the wards and placing more civilians in their place, it doesn't really make much of a difference to me personally, as i don't see it to truly effect my career very much. however, i'm sure those nurses that push all their work on to a HM now are going to be pretty bummed out when they lose their precious corpsman that does all their tasks for them. to those nurses i think they are going to just have deal with it but more importantly i can see overall patient care to possibly take a drop for a while and that does concern me. i have spoke with a few nurse corps officers that are O-1 or O-2 that have expressed their frustrations of being new to nursing and the military as well as the only active duty member in their work space. i think this does little to retain personel for their respective service and i think that could be bad for the navy marine corps team as well.

all and all, i think the intentions are good but we may end up doing more harm than good with this one.

[Small Town]

NCS? Not sure what it is, but no G.I.?! Gotcha! I'd like to do something in nutrition and other parts of study, like physical therapy. I took to the rate because I'm good with people and am interested in the rate's study. (Just finished a 3rd semester of Anatomy)I've been looking at the C schools, butonly thing that worries me is time...

[DevilDoc]

Just an FYI, most C schools are about a year. The programs get you through much faster than if you were going to a civilian school, and you're getting paid to be there. Are you going active or Reserve? You can probably find a school for a Physical Therapy technician. I am not positive on that, but check it out. Unless you plan on going to school to be an officer, you won't get Medical school out of this as an enlisted, so get what you can.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Small Town wrote: NCS? Not sure what it is, but no G.I.?! Gotcha!
NCS =National Call to Service (http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/milpers/1133-080.htm)
Short-term active duty enlistment (18-33mo?) followed by mandatory 2yr SelRes service obligation and 6yr IRR time. I believe the initial service obligation is too short to qualify for any MGIB benefits in the vast majority of cases but the NCS Program may offer other incentives (http://www.gibill.va.gov/pamphlets/ncsbasic.htm)to select individuals. Furthermore, NCS participants may become eligible for MGIB-AD benefits if allowed to reenlist/extend on active duty (Min2yr) prior to completion of their NCS initial active duty commitment. They might also be able to qualify for otherVA educationalbenefits as a Reservist. (As always - the devil is in the details)

I originally posted more on the VA Educational Benefits (http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/benefits.htm) and MGIB (http://www.gibill.va.gov/), but I decided to move it to a new post here (http://www.corpsman.com/wowbb/view_topic.php?id=424&forum_id=17).There have bee lots of changes in the program over the past couple years so everyone should re-read the fine print as it applies to their case to ensure they maximize all the benefits they are entitled to!

[oldavt]

I just got my Navy Times in the mail, and am looking at the advancement numbers. 2502 HM's pass the 1st class test, and 50 will be promoted. A 2% promotion rate. Meanwhile, the CNO discusses the reality that another 10 - 15 thousand sailors will be trimmed from the active duty roster. During a war. Hospital billets are being replaced by civilians. I don't envy anybody trying to make a career out of the Navy at this time. Sounds more like a get in, get your GI bill benefits, and get out.

[Da-Chief]

even then getting your GI bill benifits are hard, NCS Students don't rate them. They are nickle and diming us to death now.

I will speak my peace on 01 July 2007.


HOLDING TONGUE FOR NOW!

Da-Chief

[dustmans]

I think there's a problem with the big picture, turning over the hospitals to civilians does make financial sense because even though they pay these guys more then us per hour, the powers that be counting on all of the retirements that they don’t have to pay in the future which means they aren’t caring about us peons on the bottom of the ladder.



The medical field is fat forward, yanking corpsman out of the hospital and reserves to keep the manning full forward and the people in the rear are picking up the slack with the same if not more patients then we have during peacetime. The Marines are increasing their numbers but the number of Corpsman covering them isn’t increasing. If you can tell by the advancement results of this past cycle, they’re trying to get rid of us. We’re just waiting for the notice to come out.



I’m speaking as someone who loves my job, we need someone to go up to the bat for us who knows the big picture and cares about our welfare. In the rear, we’re tasked daily with more and more work and it’s pretty bad when you get to the point when you wish you were back in Iraq and away from the paperwork.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

dustmans wrote: ...turning over the hospitals to civilians does make financial sense because even though they pay these guys more then us per hour, the powers that be counting on all of the retirements that they don’t have to pay in the future which means they aren’t caring about us peons on the bottom of the ladder.

I would be interested to read the accounting figures that support your position. Any chance you can provide a citation?

By the way, how many Corpsmen actually make it the whole 20 years for retirement and how many retirements could be fully funded by just the multi-million dollar annual salaries paid by some of these more economical no-bid cost-plus contractors?


= = 2006 = =
(excerpts) Army to Pay Halliburton Unit Most Costs Disputed by Audit (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/27/international/middleeast/27contract.html?ex=1298696400&en=065a4c95530f6860& ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)
By JAMES GLANZ, NY Times, February 27, 2006

The Army has decided to reimburse a Halliburton subsidiary for nearly all of its disputed costs on a $2.41 billion no-bid contract to deliver fuel and repair oil equipment in Iraq, even though the Pentagon's own auditors had identified more than $250 million in charges as potentially excessive or unjustified.

…Still, the Army conceded that some of the criticisms of the company's business practices were legitimate. As a result, the Army said, it would exclude about half of the auditors' questioned charges from the amount used to derive the markups and fees, which are calculated as a sliding percentage of the costs. That decision could cost the company a maximum of about $7 million.

…Ms. James, the Corps of Engineers spokeswoman, said that in addition to the other modest penalties that Kellogg Brown & Root had been assessed by the Army's contracting officers, the sliding percentages on some of the fees had been lowered by unspecified amounts to reflect shortcomings in the company's dealings in Iraq. "All fees were awarded in accordance with the award fee plan set out in the contract, which placed more emphasis on timely mission accomplishment than on cost control and paperwork," Ms. James said.

…This is unlikely to be the last time the Army and Halliburton meet over negotiated costs. On a separate contract in Iraq, for logistics support to the United States military, more than $11 billion had been disbursed to Kellogg Brown & Root by mid-January, according to the Army Field Support Command, based in Rock Island, Ill. Pentagon auditors have begun scrutinizing that contract as well.

= = 2005 = =
(excerpts) Army gives Halliburton $72m bonus (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/05/11/army_gives_halliburton_72m_bonus/)
By Sue Pleming, Reuters, May 11, 2005

WASHINGTON -- The US Army said yesterday that it had awarded $72 million in bonuses to Halliburton Co. for logistics work in Iraq

…Much of Halliburton's work for the US military, ranging from building bases to delivering mail, is on a cost-plus basis, which means the company can earn up to 2 percent extra depending on its performance.

…Halliburton, .... , has earned more than $7 billion under its 2001 logistics contract with the US military.

(So on a "cost plus" contract with up to an extra 2% bonus, how much "cost" has there been that by 2005 they rated $7 billion in PROFIT on their 2001 contract? How much have they made on their other contracts and what did those contracts cost? What about all the other contractors?Why does the Sentate refuse to pass the amendment that prevents new contracts from being awarded to companies that have been caught overcharging by $100 million or more on any single contract?)

[doc hiles]

I SERVE ALL 5 YEARS WITH THE FMF (IF YOU CONSIDER PARRIS ISLAND A PART OF THE FMF OTHERWISE IT IS JUST 3), AND I AM ALL FOR FMSS BEING MANDATORY. IN MY OPINION A LOT OF HOSPITAL BILLETS HAVE BEEN ABUSED BY A LOT OF TECHS WHO MAKE IT TO HM2 AND I HAVE EVEN SEEN ONE HM1 WITH OUT BEING TO A SEA DUTY BILLET, AND THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT HAVING TO DO SEA DUTY.ALSO THE SUPERIORSOF THESE CORPSMAN AND THE CORPSMAN THEMSELVES CONTINUE TO SHOW UP TO THE FMF AND FMSS ALL FATANDNASTY COMPLAININGOF SHIN SPLINTS THEY GOT 2 YEARS AGO IN BOOT CAMP GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!I FILL THAT THEM AND THEIR SUPERIORS ARE JUST SETTING THEM UP FOR FAILURE. THE ONES IT REALLY HURTS ARE THE MARINES. IN THE WORD OF THE GREAT HM2 DESSEL "IT ANGERS THE FOOT".

WITH THAT SAID HOSPITIALS ARE A GOOD PLACE TO RECEIVE MEDICAL TRAINING (ESPECIALLY ORTHOPEDICS) FOR FUTURE FMF CORPSMAN. IF YOU HAVE GOOD LEADERSHIP WHO ARE WILLING TO TEACH AND PT. IT ALSO GIVES THEM SOME EXTRA TIME TO MATURE BEFOR GOING TO THE FMF, AND NO ONE TAKES BETTER CARE OF MILITARY AND VETERANS OTHER THAN MILITARY. IF YOU DON'T THINK SO GO TO A VA HOSPITAL YOU WILL SEE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

[dustmans]

HMC-FMF-PJ wrote: dustmans wrote: ...turning over the hospitals to civilians does make financial sense because even though they pay these guys more then us per hour, the powers that be counting on all of the retirements that they don’t have to pay in the future which means they aren’t caring about us peons on the bottom of the ladder.

I would be interested to read the accounting figures that support your position. Any chance you can provide a citation?

By the way, how many Corpsmen actually make it the whole 20 years for retirement and how many retirements could be fully funded by just the multi-million dollar annual salaries paid by some of these more economical no-bid cost-plus contractors?

You're preaching to the choir, I've PMed you where that info came from, not something that I'll post on an open forum. I don't agree with it either and believe it's part of a political game that is taking place way above our heads. Politicians being sold snake oil by a smooth talking lobbyists (or perhaps getting a piece of that pie).

[Cam]

For my family, higher quality of care at our hospitals has been served by our corpsmen rather than civilians. I do not have the insight to perspect as to why, that has just been my experience.
As for myself I would never like to be a corpsman at a hospital.

[PrairieSon]

In my 7 years, I saw everything from FMFtoshipyard/gitmo/at seato NavHosp in the L&D ward.

I'm glad I had a chance to experience more than just one thing.

[Da-Chief]

I hear ya.. I went in this order..

Clinic, C-School (AVT), Squadron, Squadron, Clinic, Reserve Center (Worst Duty ever don't even get me started!), Marines (Best Duy ever!), Hospital, NHCS..

So all in all pretty diverse.. Wish I could have gotten a ship..

Good times..

Later

HMC

[MAWDoc]

NHCS G'Lakes, AVT school in P'Cola, FMSS in Pendleton, 3rd MAW, El Toro: (2 hornet squadrons, the C-130 squadron, and an AO/G in a Phrogg squadron after Tustin closed and Miramar transition).3LONG years atBMC 1017/1007 at RTC G'Lakes (worst place in the world forall the staff there), 2d MAW Cherry Point - where I decided to stay since 2000. Marines - definitely the bestduty around. The availability of diverse assignments, deployments and duty types (whether its all type 2 or not, there are a lot of different assignments to fill - especially as a chief) make the FMF a non-stagnant and rewarding tour. Take the current OPTEMPO and you'reNEVER bored. Shore duty??? Keep it!

HMC

[oldavt]

NHCS San Diego, Naval Hospital San Diego, AVT school, Reserve training base, Helicopter squadron deploying on the USS Nimitz. Lot's of variety. My hospital time stood me in good stead when I deployed on the Nimitz and was given charge of the onboard hospital care of sick sailors. I never had bad duty, just good and better. Sorry I missed the Marines. ;)