Advancement

[FMF DOC`]

I dont know if anyone has asked this question before but I honestly dont know the answer. Why does the your FINAL Multiple matter to determine what increment you are in? Why cant it be your Percentile. I scored a 75 on the HM2 exam and I wont get paid until January 1st. Why do we have to wait 6 months in the first place. If someone you could tell me why we are the only branch of service that has a probation period before we get paid for our rank.





FMF DOC

[Da-Chief]

Ok here ya go..

Your final Multilple is not only on your test score.. Your evals as well as time in rank. Are you Junior? Did you have a avg eval??

Tell you what.. You think it sucks?? Tell the Navy Screw it.. I want to be first Incrament (BTW your only 2nd, pretty damn good, some will have to wait unitl March). Give your advancement back..

Take the test in March again, see how you do..

In other words.. I realize you scored well, but research how this all works out before you come whining.. Think about the others who did score better then you but because of TIR or Lower eval didn't get it.

Go ahead and give it to them.. I am sure they will take it off your hands. Be more appreciative that you were advanced which gives you more responsibility. It's not about the Money all the time.

My own 2¢...

V/R
Da-Chief

[FMF DOC`]

Chief,

What do you mean I am second increment? I thought I would be last due to the fact I made it by .67.. I just would like to know why does sailors have to have a probation period but no other service does.. Please correct me if I am wrong.



V/R

FMFDOC

[Poolzer]

Because we have aircaraft carriers, nuclear subs and a big chief's mess to pay for!

The one and only reason for incriments is that the Navy cant afford to pay all promotions right away. Allicated funds are spread out over a 6 month window so we can pay for things the other services dont have.

[FMF DOC`]

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it



FMFDOC

[hm1park]

My answer is summarized in two words: Tradition and Frugality. The excerpt below lays out the history of "frocking" excerpted from http://www.history.navy.mil

I've discussedthis policy withsome people recently, and I believe we maintain this because of the traditions involved and because when it comes down to it, the Navy saves money as a result of stalling in paying it's personnel effective immediately. The idea or intent that is often described is that we're making sure our leaders are ready for the job by giving them this probationary period. Call it what you will, but that's how it is.

Concerning the Final Multiple and how it relates to your increment. Imagine we need120 second class petty officers for the March 06' examadvancement cycle.TheNavy mustjudge you on your overall performance, hence the"final multiple" After eachpassing exam takerhas been numerically ranked by their final multiplescore, they simply chop that group of the 120 top people into 6 individual groups of (increments) of 20 people each who will be advanced to the next paygrade in month order. Hoping that makes sense. I am a rambler.

excerpt from history.navy.mil

An early use of "frock" (15th century) referred to the long habit characteristically worn by monks. Through the centuries, frock came to describe various loose garments of some length. The "frock coat," which was a long-skirted garment coming almost to the knees, became a popular fashion for men in the early 19th century and was quickly adopted for military uniforms. It is feasible that the frock coat was so called because the length was reminiscent of earlier clothing articles.


There is an alternative explanation for the term "frock coat." An ornamental closure, called a "frog," which consisted of a spindle-shaped button passing through a loop of material or braid, was typical on military uniforms at least as early as the mid-18th century. The expression could have evolved from frog coat to frock coat.


Our assumption is that the current usage of "frocking" is in some way related to the officer's frock coats. The verb form "to frock," relating originally to the monk's cloak, meant "to invest with priestly office or privilege." Perhaps this idea of establishing position by the donning of a particular garment is resurrected here. Another explanation for the link between the term and the practice is that the early undress uniform for a midshipman was a short coat whereas that for a lieutenant was a frock coat. When a midshipman was appointed to act in the capacity of a lieutenant, he wore the uniform of the latter. In this instance, it could be said he was "frocked."


Regarding the practice of frocking itself, there are various instances in Navy Regulations at least as early as 1802 of personnel assuming the uniform of the next higher rank, not necessarily with higher pay, when appointed by proper authority to assume the duties and responsibilities of that rank prior to actual promotion. These appointments were sometimes temporary as when it was necessary rapidly to swell the ranks during war time, especially in the Civil War. Other instances concerned a commander's need to fill an unforseen vacancy for which there was no one of equal rank. In this case, a junior who was qualified for promotion would assume the uniform and duties pending approval by the Navy Department.


The practice that we currently refer to as frocking has been in common usage in one form or another throughout the Navy's history. There does not seem to be a definite point however at which the practice was first established. The original use of the term "frocking" to describe the current policy is also unclear, but probably is of recent vintage as it does not appear in earlier documents (18th-19th century). The 1974 version is the earliest Bureau of Naval Personnel Manual to contain the policy itself and refer to it as "frocking."

[hm1park]

Or...if you're shit hot...get CAP'd

[FMF DOC`]

Thank you for the input. That is the first time in my 6 years in the Navy that someone explained how the incraments are calculated. I always thought they were calculated how high you scored over your final multiple. But now I know that isnt the case. Thanks



FMFDOC

[Da-Chief]

FMF Doc,

I was bustin your balls trying to give you the incentive to find out how it worked. One thing that fries my onions (now that's a term) is when we have people who always have to be "TOLD WHAT TO DO!"

Shipmate, your a leader, you have to go out and find the info yourself now to pass to the juniors. Sure you can ask and we will help, but quite frankly this was a easy look.

I just found this on google.. I googled Navy Final Multiple

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/allhands/nlnavypromotion-2.htm

Very first response.

Savi??

;-)

I am quite sure you are a "SHIT HOT DOC".. as you are being advanced. Just remember though whenMarch rolls around, I know one place you won't be..
Taking the advancement test.. :dude:. BZ..

Now it is time to lead and not follow..

get to it..

Da-Chief

[Da-Chief]

Hey guys on another note.. give yourselves Avtar's.. either a pic or something that tells us about you..

A avtar is the pic on the side of our messages.. go to "My Account" then Avtar..

Enjoy..

FMF Doc..

Seriously.. Congratulations.. you have been advanced no matter what the score becuase your a a go-getter..

Keep it up..

HMC

[FMF DOC`]

Thanks Chief,

Hope you and your family have awonderful Merry Christmas.



V/R

FMF DOC

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

FMF DOC` wrote: I dont know if anyone has asked this question before but I honestly dont know the answer. Why does the your FINAL Multiple matter to determine what increment you are in? Why cant it be your Percentile. I scored a 75 on the HM2 exam and I wont get paid until January 1st. Why do we have to wait 6 months in the first place. If someone you could tell me why we are the only branch of service that has a probation period before we get paid for our rank.

I know you have already pretty much resolved all this in the thread, but I couldn't help but think WTF as I read it.

I am willing to bet that the NEAS (http://www-nmcp.med.navy.mil/HMTraining/NEAS_050208.pdf)was explained to you on multiple occasions at various formal/informal settings during your 6 year career. It is also contained in some of the training you should have completed during that 6 years. Hell, worst come to worst, I would expect a Petty Officer to look up the damn reg and find out for himself. It clearly states in Section 102 of the Advancement Manual (http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/Instructions/143016/1430.16.htm)that: "Advancement candidates E-4 through E-7 take competitive examinations that are used as part of a final multiple score (FMS). The FMS system is based on knowledge, performance, and experience factors, and considers the "whole person" in its selection criteria (http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/Instructions/143016/1430.16E_CH1.htm)." Your exam score, or "percentile", is only 34% of the FMS.

I am also curious about what you mean by "probation"?? I didn't know the NEAS had a probationary period. Do you get terminated or lose your promotion if you are unsuccessful during the probation period? Non-compliance with the current physical readiness program or failure to meet other requirements (such as PO3 & CPO indoc) means the CO can delay or withhold your advancement; but that is you screwing up, not any sort of "probation period". Since a CO may withdraw a recommendation for advancement at any time a Sailor is determined to be no longer qualified for advancement, I guess we are all on "probation" 24/7 for our entire military careers....

To the best of my knowledge the Navy does not have a "probation period" forpromotionsand you are WRONG. I also think it was wrong to engage your mouth (or in this case your keyboard) before engaging your brain. I know I'm being curt, but the content and tone of your first two postings falls short of what I would expect to see. I am glad to see that this appears to have been corrected by your last post (Dec23).

By the way, Frocking provides early recognition (http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/milpers/1420-060.htm)for members selected for petty officer third class through master chief petty officer. It is not a DELAY as you claim, but actually an EARLY RECOGNITION and an OPPORTUNITY to both develop your leadership and show your stuff. If the CO thinks you have what it takes, he'll give you a chance. However, if you prove the CO wrong and demonstrate that you are not worthy of early recognition, then of course he is going to remove your frocking, since obviously you didn't deserve it. You are backassward in your assessment of the situation. The Navy isn't making selectee's wait; they are providing a chance for some selectee's to jump to the front of the line BEFORE their date of advancement.

Besides, Congress authorizes the budget and the President signs it into law. Like you, the DoD and Navy really can't spend money it doesn't have and assigns different priorities to various needs. Only so many positions at each paygrade and in each rating are allowed. (Some ratings/paygrades are frozen and will not be promoted.)It is not that the Navy is trying to save money and screw you out of the pay you deserve. The fact of the matter is that the Navy is giving you a head start towards your next promotion and an early start on the perks of promotion as soon as possible. The Navy would be breaking the law and violating regulations if they paid you before you rated it. However, while your FMS was too low to be promoted during the first increment, you can still get all the benefits (clubs, messing, berthing, housing, parking, duty assignments, watch schedule, schools/training, etc.) of the next higher paygrade now without having to wait until the actual advancement date your performance has earned you.

You must VOLUNTEER to be frocked (http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/milpers/1420-060.htm)! If you don't want to receive the opportunity and perks early, then what until you actually rate your promotion before you put on that next stripe or take advantage of the benefits. (I can also assure you that the advancement systems used by the other services are not "perfect" either and there are plenty of people whining over there too.)

Now that I've vented and provided a few links, I suppose you can do a little homework and read the reg's for yourself so you can provide the correct answer when your future subordinate asks why the Navy is screwing him by making him wait when nobody else has too. You also need to make sure you have a safe and happy new year.

[Da-Chief]

Yup,

HMC is bacccccccckkkkkkkk....

;-)

Thanks!
HMC(AW)