Bootcamp awards and ribbons

[fsumedic]

Hey i was was just wondering what types of awards or ribbons you can get in bootcamp. I know that there's a Marksmen ribbon but didn't know if there was anything else? Oh and how do you attain these awards or ribbons.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Do a good job because it is the right thing to do and you will be recognized. The basic things you can earn to wear on your uniform out of boot camp are marksmanship medals and another stripe (promotion). All other honors I know of are on paper.

But remember, good team players are far more important than individual super stars and nobody likes a ribbon hunter. If you do things only for the possibility of an award people will hold you in distain and you will find this to be a most unsatisfactory job.

[Corpsman_Billy]

Actually you can't get the Marksman ribbon as they don't fire the M4 or M16 and RTC. The only ones that I have ever seen anybody come out with are the National Defense Service medal which is a 'freebie', as in, everybody gets it who has served honorably between September 11, 2001 and a date to be determined for the War on Terrorism, and the Pistol Markmanship Ribbon for qualifying with the M9 Pistol. I somewhat consider that a freebie to being as I have watched some recruits go in who have never held so much as a BB Gun come out with it.

However, take HMC's words to heart. Nobody really likes a ribbon hunter. Keep that in mind. Seving the military isn't about how many ribbons you can pin on your chest. Someone who is hunting ribbons is typically not a team player. They are looking out for themselves, not the others around them.

SR Meyer

[8404]

The only ones that I have ever seen anybody come out with are the National Defense Service medal which is a 'freebie', as in, everybody gets it who has served honorably between September 11, 2001 and a date to be determined for the War on Terrorism.


http://sk1.yt-thm-a03.yimg.com/image/68185b883fc319fc

Actually, the period you mentioned only covers one of the multiple periods, military personnel are awarded this ribbon/medal. Additionally, it is not a date to be determined "for the War on Terrorism", rather a closing date yet to be determined!

"Criteria: a. The National Defense Service Medal was awarded for honorable active service for any period between 27 June 1950 and 27 July 1954; between 1 January 1961 and 14 August 1974; between 2 August 1990 and 30 November 1995 and between 11 September 2001 and a closing date to be determined."

Source: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/NationalDefenseServiceMedal.htm

[Corpsman_Billy]

http://sk1.yt-thm-a03.yimg.com/image/68185b883fc319fc

Actually, the period you mentioned only covers one of the multiple periods, military personnel are awarded this ribbon/medal. Additionally, it is not a date to be determined "for the War on Terrorism", rather a closing date yet to be determined!

"Criteria: a. The National Defense Service Medal was awarded for honorable active service for any period between 27 June 1950 and 27 July 1954; between 1 January 1961 and 14 August 1974; between 2 August 1990 and 30 November 1995 and between 11 September 2001 and a closing date to be determined."

Source: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/NationalDefenseServiceMedal.htm

Jeez 8404, get all technical on me. Actually I was aware of the other time periods of which it was awarded. However for the sake of the post and information pertaining to what he would get at boot camp, I left out the rest. The wars it was awarded for also included Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War. :zz:

[8404]

Sorry guy, I myself didn't want to get left out as having earned one. :D

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

... Pistol Markmanship Ribbon for qualifying with the M9 Pistol. I somewhat consider that a freebie to being as I have watched some recruits go in who have never held so much as a BB Gun come out with it.

So a beginning student attends training with no prior experience and following training the student performs so adeptly that he qualifies for special recognition most individuals do not obtain...

And a Super Bowl ring is an NFL freebie because players might "earn it" during their rookie year by merely sitting on the bench of the winning team all year...?

[Corpsman_Billy]

So a beginning student attends training with no prior experience and following training the student performs so adeptly that he qualifies for special recognition most individuals do not obtain...

And a Super Bowl ring is an NFL freebie because players might "earn it" during their rookie year by merely sitting on the bench of the winning team all year...?

Oh boy, I know I don't want to pick a fight with a Chief. :nah:


HOWEVER, I have not known anybody who has left RTC without one. You may have some statistics that I do not have. However, from my experience 'most individuals do not obtain' is incorrect, since as I said, I have yet to talk to someone who has left RTC with out.

[Doc_Stevens]

Oh boy, I know I don't want to pick a fight with a Chief.

Never get into a fight with a Chief. No such thing as a fair fight with them, they fight to WIN. :not:

[8404]

And 'win' they will! I kidd you not!

:not:

[KentuckyBoy]

I knew a couple of people who did not earn any ribbon for shooting the pistol while in boot camp. When you go to the range and shoot, the first time you qualify you are done. So I went in and shot marksman first time up and left with a marksman ribbon. Another recruit didn't shoot a qualifying score the first two times up but then shot expert on his third attempt, and he is then able to wear expert. I'm not sure of how many times in total they allow you to shoot though. I think 4 or 5. I believe we had two people out of 81 that didn't qualify for the ribbon (didn't shoot marksman or better).
To answer your question, you will leave boot camp with the National Defense Service Medal (also a ribbon) and you will have the opportunity to earn the ribbon for qualifying on the pistol. If you shoot expert of the pistol you also earn a medal. Both ribbons and medals are given to you by your instructors in boot camp prior to you graduating.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

No need to fight, just broaden your experience a bit. There are a good number of people that have a marksmanship ribbon, but for a variety of reasons there are still more individuals who do not. (I would also not call a National Defense Service Medal in exchange for a blank check, payable for the amount up to and including your life, a "freebie" but that's another subject.)

Since the beginning of combat operations there has been an increased emphasis on shooting. As such there has been an increased opportunity for individuals to shoot the official course of fire and attempt to qualify for a marksmanship award. However, this has not always been the case and just like issuing new style uniforms, the recruits in boot camp often get first crack at the new stuff over the old salts in the fleet. A couple years ago when individual firearm skills held a lower priority in the big blue Navy, shooting was near the top of the chopping block whenever something needed to be reduced or eliminated from training. It was believed that hardly anyone in an office on base needed firearm skills and only a few posts onboard ship required rifle/handgun qualification. If you weren't required to carry a gun on duty then you often weren't given the chance to officially qualify with a firearm or it was an incredible hassle to arrange without lots of support from the brass.

I would argue that for most of my career, recruits could not even shoot the official course of fire at RTC so it was impossible to earn any marksmanship award during boot camp. At times they shot a .45 or 9mm pistol converted to .22 which of course is not a standard issue pistol and therefore ineligible for a marksmanship award no matter how well you shot. We did a basic FAMFIRE (familiarization fire) in boot and I know other sailors who did not even get to shoot at RTC. At one point I think they may have even switched to laser simulators for a while (like FATS or BEAMHIT) to save money and to eliminate range safety issues.

Very few ratings outright require the use of firearms in day-to-day operations. Most Navy A-Schools and C-Schools do not involve firearms. In fact marksmanship ribbons were rare enough that an instructor(s) at NSHS San Diego would check Service Records and bust students undeservingly wearing one while attending HM A-School and C-Schools. In fact, between 1996 and 2001, it was not entirely uncommon to occassionally see PO3 & below without any ribbons.

So when you say "most individuals" who are you talking about? Just enlisted new joins that have graduated boot in the last couple years or everyone currently in the Navy today? How about "most individuals" in the Navy during the span of my short 18yr career? What about since 1969 when the current marksmanship awards were introduced or 1920 when the Navy's earlier marksmanship awards were initiated? Like the Combat Action Ribbon, more people might be wearing marksmanship awards today than in previous years, but "most individuals" have not obtained one.

Since the start of OEF, OIF, HOA and GWOT in general, the Navy has come to realize that individual firearm handling skills are very important to the current mission. With all the "gun control" stupidity in many areas, the Navy also recognizes that fewer and fewer raw recruits are coming to boot camp with any sort of prior weapon experience. As such, the Navy has significantly increased the focus and training spent towards firearm proficiency among recruits.

You've now talked to someone who's entire graduating class left RTC without a single marksmanship award because none of us shot the official course of fire.

[Corpsman_Billy]

No need to fight, just broaden your experience a bit. There are a good number of people that have a marksmanship ribbon, but for a variety of reasons there are still more individuals who do not. (I would also not call a National Defense Service Medal in exchange for a blank check, payable for the amount up to and including your life, a "freebie" but that's another subject.)

Since the beginning of combat operations there has been an increased emphasis on shooting. As such there has been an increased opportunity for individuals to shoot the official course of fire and attempt to qualify for a marksmanship award. However, this has not always been the case and just like issuing new style uniforms, the recruits in boot camp often get first crack at the new stuff over the old salts in the fleet. A couple years ago when individual firearm skills held a lower priority in the big blue Navy, shooting was near the top of the chopping block whenever something needed to be reduced or eliminated from training. It was believed that hardly anyone in an office on base needed firearm skills and only a few posts onboard ship required rifle/handgun qualification. If you weren't required to carry a gun on duty then you often weren't given the chance to officially qualify with a firearm or it was an incredible hassle to arrange without lots of support from the brass.

I would argue that for most of my career, recruits could not even shoot the official course of fire at RTC so it was impossible to earn any marksmanship award during boot camp. At times they shot a .45 or 9mm pistol converted to .22 which of course is not a standard issue pistol and therefore ineligible for a marksmanship award no matter how well you shot. We did a basic FAMFIRE (familiarization fire) in boot and I know other sailors who did not even get to shoot at RTC. At one point I think they may have even switched to laser simulators for a while (like FATS or BEAMHIT) to save money and to eliminate range safety issues.

Very few ratings outright require the use of firearms in day-to-day operations. Most Navy A-Schools and C-Schools do not involve firearms. In fact marksmanship ribbons were rare enough that an instructor(s) at NSHS San Diego would check Service Records and bust students undeservingly wearing one while attending HM A-School and C-Schools. In fact, between 1996 and 2001, it was not entirely uncommon to occassionally see PO3 & below without any ribbons.

So when you say "most individuals" who are you talking about? Just enlisted new joins that have graduated boot in the last couple years or everyone currently in the Navy today? How about "most individuals" in the Navy during the span of my short 18yr career? What about since 1969 when the current marksmanship awards were introduced or 1920 when the Navy's earlier marksmanship awards were initiated? Like the Combat Action Ribbon, more people might be wearing marksmanship awards today than in previous years, but "most individuals" have not obtained one.

Since the start of OEF, OIF, HOA and GWOT in general, the Navy has come to realize that individual firearm handling skills are very important to the current mission. With all the "gun control" stupidity in many areas, the Navy also recognizes that fewer and fewer raw recruits are coming to boot camp with any sort of prior weapon experience. As such, the Navy has significantly increased the focus and training spent towards firearm proficiency among recruits.

You've now talked to someone who's entire graduating class left RTC without a single marksmanship award because none of us shot the official course of fire.

You're right Chief. 'Everbody I know' has been there within the last 2 or 3 years. How things were 18 years ago I would not have a clue since I was still wearing a diaper:weye:

Anyhow, I will shut my mouth now.

[Zahtsk]

Some divisions don't get to qualify. It is NOT mandatory to qualify at the firing range.

My division got to go, I think all but 2 of us qualified. 1 person got berrata bite (DO NOT CROSS YOUR THUMBS!) and 1 broke blue... and those who didn't qualify the first time had six shot to qualify in my division.

They try to get all division down to qualify but some cannot do it. I don't feign to understand why so I will just add my two cents by saying "scheduling issues." Hell a few divisions in my ship were completely unable to go to the live fire.

My understanding, per what my RDCs said, was that live fire was NOT required but that laser familiarization course. It had a different name than what I have seen here.

However, it should be noted to have your 9MM in condition 3 (round chambered, slide forward, safety on, magazine inserted, etc etc...) while on guard duty at RDC you need to be qualified at the range... Note the 9MM when you are pulling night security watch/roving watch/whatever are fake, and have little beads for bullets.

[indy]

On the topic of gunfire, all we got in 2001 was some instruction with the air powered laser versions, and then 6 real shots on a range...nothing even close to an actual course of fire required for a markmanship award. Fortunately I was able to rectify that in the fleet.

Regarding awards, when I was there, there was a program that recognized outstanding recruits from the graduating divisions (those who 'classed' up at the same time), and were all sponsored by outside organizations. I was one of the 10 recognized, and received a plaque from the Military Order of the World Wars. Does it have any significance on my military career? Absolutely none; it doesn't count for anything, I can't wear it, but it was a recognition of accomplishments, and works for pride.

As it's been a while since I was at boot camp, they may have changed the program, but there were 'awards,' just not in the sense of ribbons and medals of the category such as the National Defense Medal or marksmanship awards.

-indy

[Da-Chief]

I think to get to know Weapons, Since there are quite a few who have never handled one, or only MAC-10's...

:-)

They should go back to the old days... This was in San Diego where I went through.. and waived at the Marines on the other side of the fence..

http://oldbluejacket.com/images/rtc_185.jpg

[psencik1950]

Were you still hauling those plugged up '03 Springfields around? We got to fire 10 or 20 rounds from a M-1 at the range.