EMT-B? --> Paramedic?

[Corpsman_Billy]

Hey guys I have a question here. I thought that @ the end of A-School, you took the NREMT-B test, and that all Corpsman had to be at least EMT-Basics. However in another thread that Poolzer posted about the 8401 pipeline he said

If it wasn't broadcasted in loud words from BUMED this last Monday, the 8401 pipeline is online and accepting HM 'A' school kids straight into sea duty (type 2) and shore billets. EMT-B is no longer a requirement to enter the community.



I have also heard of Paramedic Corpsman. Now I am curious, I know some come into the Navy already holding NREMT-P certification, but is there a chance while in to become EMT-P certified?

And for that matter, I know that in California you can challenge for LPN, are there any other Certs that Corpsman can obtain that I am not aware of (besides C-Schools)?

[Poolzer]

None of the branches in the military will qualify their medical staff at the EMT-P level. As of Jan 1st 2008 EMT-P is a mandated 2 year associates program and all fast track programs such as tide water have closed.

EMT at any level has never been offered through HM 'A' school, though a chapter or 2 from the Brady book from EMT-B have been taught. The Air Force is the only branch that qualifies their enlisted military at the EMT-B level from their core school.

Many Naval Hospitals are discontinuing their EMT-B program due to Trauma Combat Causality Care (TCCC) course.

[Doc_Hopkins]

EMT at any level has never been offered through HM 'A' school, though a chapter or 2 from the Brady book from EMT-B have been taught. The Air Force is the only branch that qualifies their enlisted military at the EMT-B level from their core school.

Not true Wisky's in the Army are being certified as EMT-B and processed/ Registered Nationally with NREMT

[Poolzer]

At their initial school? I thought certain follow on schools incorporated that.

Good on them if they are though. Its to bad Navy Medicine is moving away from it, its a great civilian certification.

[Da-Chief]

Here is the deal and it is really subject to change in the next year or so..

Navy--NO EMT out of Corps School, Back in the early 90's you could challenge the National Registry after corps school and more practical time. This is not so anymore as Corps School does not really harp on the BRADY like you would need to pass the EMT-B.

Army, you do indeed get Nationally Registered as EMT-B. This might be changed though as well in the next few years, as EMT-B is not really a asset in Combat Medicine, Triage is reversed and we do much more in a combat environment then any EMT-B would "EVER" see.

Coast Guard, goes all the way to EMT-P depending on the job needed.

Air Force.. This is the mystery service, we as of yet to date have had a Airmen come on to tell us what the hell they do.. Must be a secret Squirrel Hand shake we missed out on!!
;-)

Thats all I got for now, I used to work in the Academics shop at NHCS, and I still have my tentacles in there to know what is going on.

Now you know the rest of the Story!!
Good Day!
D/C

[Corpsman_Billy]

Here is the deal and it is really subject to change in the next year or so..

Navy--NO EMT out of Corps School, Back in the early 90's you could challenge the National Registry after corps school and more practical time. This is not so anymore as Corps School does not really harp on the BRADY like you would need to pass the EMT-B.

Army, you do indeed get Nationally Registered as EMT-B. This might be changed though as well in the next few years, as EMT-B is not really a asset in Combat Medicine, Triage is reversed and we do much more in a combat environment then any EMT-B would "EVER" see.

Coast Guard, goes all the way to EMT-P depending on the job needed.

Air Force.. This is the mystery service, we as of yet to date have had a Airmen come on to tell us what the hell they do.. Must be a secret Squirrel Hand shake we missed out on!!
;-)

Thats all I got for now, I used to work in the Academics shop at NHCS, and I still have my tentacles in there to know what is going on.

Now you know the rest of the Story!!
Good Day!
D/C

Hmm, thats too bad. I mean I know that an EMT and Corpsman encounter very different types of patiens, but like Poolzer said, it would be a useful cert to have if I didn't put in my 20+.

You know, too bad they don't have some sort of special cert like NREMT-C(orpsman)!
I mean, I haven't been to an EMT-B course and obvously not through Corps school yet. But a Corpsman would still do just fine out in the civilian EMS world, would they not? I mean, they train Corpsman to deal under the highest level of stress with some of the most critically injured patients. That doesn't really seem fair.

[Da-Chief]

The Problem where a Corpsman "COULD" get in trouble is if they step outside of their boundaries when treating a pt.

We do much more advanced Cardiac care out in the field. We push meds depending on the situation, Civ's don't. Etc..

You have to understand, the Navy is not out trying to Staff the CIV world. There are limted dollars for countless programs, they have to take care of themselves first before worrying about other services (I.e working with them) and then down the line worrying about the Civ world.

It's all about the $$$...

In a Perfect world we could just send you to these things, but these things cost money..

D/C

[bubba68]

hmmmm. i have heard now that HM's can challenge the nremt-b test. a good friend of mine called me the other day about it. however, i can tell you that if you are an HM and decide to take the emt-b, I, or P course...STUDY! I went in as a "know it all" and ended up with my tail between my legs because there are alot of differences between training at corps school, fmss (fmtb), what your sea daddy or mommy teaches you and the civvie courses! i would like to put out that if any of you are stationed or live near san diego, Miramar college will let you in the course for like $142.00! that's all i paid last year.

[Poolzer]

If you live in the San Diego area, you can go to 29 palms and take it for free :) Next full course is in April. HM3 Razen is the POC at their staff ed and training.

[KentuckyBoy]

The EMT-B course is offered here at the hospital on another base. It is not pushed by the command but you can route a chit and go attend the course. It is not an extremely uncommon thing to have happen, but your shop must let you go for those 3 or + weeks. Like Chief says, our level of care is much different then an EMT-B's. The process of the way we do things and our limitations are different. It also doesn't really help the command, so they are paying for you to go to a school, losing the work that you would normally provide, and gaining next to nothing. Don't be a shitbag and expect to get approved.

[AO1(AW)]

I recently had a chance to go thru the EMT-B course, it was a intensive three week course taught here at Whidbey by some fine SAR Corpsman. I took it to get a jump on becoming a HM. Classes during the day and ride alongs with the local ambulance crews at night getting patient contacts and exposure.

Anyway, I took the NREMT and didn't make it so I'm looking at retesting...lol. If you take the course make sure you STUDY YOUR A$$ OFF!!!

[indy]

I had the pleasure of taking the National Registry version back in college after what felt like cramming 3 years worth of knowledge into 1 tuesday night a week for a semester...made it but only just. Thankfully I had good ambulance crews to help me out, and show me the right way.

[tjbroussard]

The Air Force Aerospace Medical Technicians (4N0xx) complete and are certified NREMT-Basic's in their initial school at Sheppard AFB. Additionally, the AF is looking at advancing the certification for many of the independent duty positions to the NREMT-P level....and has created a specialty code for this action.

No secret squirell handshake required....at least for those on the inside!

Terry
USAF Retired, but the rest does require the Secret Handshake:)

[Oregon]

The Air Force Aerospace Medical Technicians (4N0xx) complete and are certified NREMT-Basic's in their initial school at Sheppard AFB. Additionally, the AF is looking at advancing the certification for many of the independent duty positions to the NREMT-P level....and has created a specialty code for this action.

In addition, pararescuemen receive nremt-p certification.

[casspir]

(treading lightly so as not to piss off the Chiefs)...Umm... No EMT-P for the USCG. EMT-B at HS A school. Some HS are EMT-I, due to mission requirements. EMT-P on the outside if taken at an outside program, not working as a Paramedic in the CG.

[indy]

casspir,

no need to tread lightly! it's a friendly community where all knowledge is welcomed.

For those who are following, USCG HS is the equivalent of USN HM.

casspir, do independent duty HSs get qualified, or challenge the P level test? or not a requirement?

[ice_nine]

The Special Operations Combat Medic Course gives with it an NREMT-P cert as well as ACLS upon completion.

They do clinical time at a number of trauma centers, one of which I used to work part time at. Students were made up of 75th Ranger Reg, 160th SOAR, SEALs/SWCC and SARCs, as well as the 18D's who use the SOCM as the first part of their SF medical sgt's course.

USAF Pararescue do their own medical training at a 4 or 5 month course in New Mexico. It is also a NREMT-P level course.

IIRC the SOCM course is 22 weeks long and held on Ft Bragg with clinical time like I said held at various locations.

By comparison the civilian paramedic training that I did was over the course of 1 year, about 1100 classroom hours and 600 hours of clinicals with 200 in hospital and 400 ambulance. Pre-reqs were EMT-B for at least a year and college level A+P 1&2. I never did the NREMT-P thing, just got certified on the state level along with ACLS, PALS and PHTLS.





Oh and PS: I am currently not in the military. Was AD in the USMC and am currently looking at a return as a reserve FMF Corpsman. My experience with military medics is soley based upon helping with the SOCM students. In the civilian world I am a firefighter/paramedic.

:panda:

[Da-Chief]

Why would anyone tread lightly..

HELL WALK AROUND WITH GOLF SHOES IN A SNOW STROM, for all we care as long as the info is pertinent and accurate..

;-)

D/C

[indy]

yeah, but then the snow gets into your socks, and that's just annoying.... :D

[corpsmanbrandon]

This is really my introductory post in the corpsman.com Community. but its a good one!

I am an EMT-B here in the Emergency Room at USNH Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. We are required to have one EMT on per shift at the hospital and one on duty across the bay on "leeward side" clinic (affectionately given the raidio call sign MEDIC ONE). We are one of, if not the only, naval hospitals that REQUIRES a certain amount of EMTs on staff. this is because of our location.

Now this being said, EMT-B was actually harder for us because we are Corpsmen. The Scope of practice is so small for EMT-Bs they can administer O2, Oral Glucose, and EPI-Pen (also if the pt has nitro or an inhaler). We, on the rigs, always start an IV Lock. Not the Scope of practice for EMT-Bs.

We should be able to challenge the NREMT board for other levels based on our certs. im a PALS/ACLS/NRP/BLS instructor. yet according to them i cant do what i was trained to. i can run a code protocol in 5 minutes... IV, Rainbow tubes and a 12 lead ECG to the DR.


BUT because i am a corpsman and i have the training i can do what i need in the "field" here. if i were to go off base (if there were a such thing as that here ) i would only be able to do the EMT-B stuff until we got on base.


Done venting. Have a good day... got my 12 hour shift coming up here in an hour.

-HN Brandon

[Poolzer]

The past has shown that many Corpsmen trained at the P level did not retain their knowledge over the course of several years and that negligence actually ran rampant throughout the services due to not utilizing their skills enough to learn practical experience. That in turn leads to instructors teaching what they know, which is just book knowledge and not passing on true experiences. Add that scheme of training over a couple decades and you got the type of program that was common in the Navy when we had a paramedic NEC in the 80s. In my experiences this still happens at the 'b' level through staff ed and training sites. I have watched many instructors just read off of slides and summarize parts of the book and talking to students that felt it wasnt much more than a 'GMT' lecture with fun medical toys.

I was a SAR HM in GTMO in 2002/2003 and help set up the leeward side program that you see today (SAR HMs ran the EMT program on Leeward, then trained up many EMTS when our helos were moved to windward). I know the frustrations of having the knowledge and not having the civilian certification to back it up. Our community fought hard, but when the NREMT changed the paramedic requirements to a 2 year AA, pretty much all hope was lost. Many hold the 'p' level through recerts and the rest know that they can perform at that capacity since they train at it, whereas the general 0000/8404 doesnt (field medicine is much different, more basic/intermediate trauma vs cardiac/medical awareness).

Keep studying the 'why' of what you have learned. EMT-B is jsut that, basic, but the civilian laws and scope of care are black and white, where ours as HMs are not. If you are motivated and interested in pre-hospital care, then start looking at the SAR HM pipeline where you can put those skills to use rather than practice and dream about it.

Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.

[corpsmanbrandon]

when you were here was it out of station 3 or the BAS?

[Poolzer]

Initially BAS (you can see the red cross still painted, least you could when I left) then we integrated into the fire station, thats when the cross training fun started. My 1st run there was a gunny that had a heart attack after taking Ephedra back when it was the in thing..Died before I got there. My last EMT call before I PCS'd was a GSW to the left lower flank at MOPP 1, a PFC didnt safe his weapon and shot himself, 5.56 through and through with no major injuries but it sure woke winward up when I called it in at 6am..gotta love the marines.

[coastie16]

This is really my introductory post in the corpsman.com Community. but its a good one!

I am an EMT-B here in the Emergency Room at USNH Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. We are required to have one EMT on per shift at the hospital and one on duty across the bay on "leeward side" clinic (affectionately given the raidio call sign MEDIC ONE). We are one of, if not the only, naval hospitals that REQUIRES a certain amount of EMTs on staff. this is because of our location.

Now this being said, EMT-B was actually harder for us because we are Corpsmen. The Scope of practice is so small for EMT-Bs they can administer O2, Oral Glucose, and EPI-Pen (also if the pt has nitro or an inhaler). We, on the rigs, always start an IV Lock. Not the Scope of practice for EMT-Bs.

We should be able to challenge the NREMT board for other levels based on our certs. im a PALS/ACLS/NRP/BLS instructor. yet according to them i cant do what i was trained to. i can run a code protocol in 5 minutes... IV, Rainbow tubes and a 12 lead ECG to the DR.


BUT because i am a corpsman and i have the training i can do what i need in the "field" here. if i were to go off base (if there were a such thing as that here ) i would only be able to do the EMT-B stuff until we got on base.


Done venting. Have a good day... got my 12 hour shift coming up here in an hour.

-HN Brandon
Hey HN Brandon- Sure I have come across you in my many port calls there to GTMO....I am the IDC off of the USCGC Northland. I just want to say you guys do AWSOME work up there, and support us (the ships that pull in). Anytime I have ever needed to get someone up there, or needed supplies you guys are on it! and I just want to say thanks! Bravo Zulu! especially you guys there in the ER!
HS1 Brockett