Moonlighting While Staying Navy

[Vogelms]

I've been interested in Xray tech mainly for the ability to be civilian certified and able to work on off time in a hospital for extra money... during my clinicals I met a HM2 that was doing just that. With many of the HM "C" schools closing until the move to Texas, I was wondering with all this knowledge here, if anyone knows what other NEC's would transfer into the civilian world much like the Xray tech would. I saw a post just a moment ago where DA CHIEF was saying Surgical techs in Chitown were getting 35$ an hour to work on thier offtime. That's about what I'm looking for. I know Xray tech and CV tech can get civilian certifications and moonlight... I had no idea about Surgical tech. So my question is this:

How many other NEC's translate this well (able to pull $30+ an hour) into the civilian world and which are they? Please name any and all that you know of.

I'm a SAR swimmer and I know that DiveMed tech is a great NEC for staying Navy, but I don't think I'd be able to moonlight with a job like that. Plus I'm fairly sure they are limited in location. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Moonlighting requires command approval and will not always be permitted or may be severely restricted. Not exactly something you want to base a career choice on.

I'm curious why you are looking to moonlight? Budget problems are seldom caused, or solved, by how much you make. The vast majority of problems are linked to how much you spend. Individuals with bigger incomes often simply have bigger bills and debts. Their paycheck may have more zero's on it, but so do their financial problems...

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Browse through the NEC's yourself and do some research. You can check NKO and CANTRAC for course info & dates.

NEOCS Manual, Navy Enlisted Classifications (NEC), Volume II
http://www.npc.navy.mil/ReferenceLibrary/NECOS/NECOSVol2/8400-8499.htm

Have you read NAVADMIN 031/09?
HM-8410 BIO-MEDICAL EQUIPMENT TECHNICIAN B-326-1000 10
HM-8427 FLEET MARINE FORCE RECON CORPSMAN B-300-0011
HM-8467 OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY ASSISTANT B-303-0053 10
HM-8493 MEDICAL DEEP SEA DIVING TECHNICIAN A-433-0020
HM-8753 ADVANCED DENTAL LAB TECHNICIAN B-331-0017

What about USMAP? Have you checked there?
United Services Military Apprenticeship Program (USMAP)
https://usmap.cnet.navy.mil/usmapss/static/usmap.jsp


Obviously dive tech's need to be near water to find work, but you might just be surprised how many places water is found. Not just dive schools, but I even saw a show on diving old abandoned missile silo's that had flooded.

In the current economy, not many jobs are going to pay >$30/hr to a applicant that just finished school, has zero experience, wants a part-time position with a restricted schedule subject to the "needs of the Navy" but even in good times that will be impacted by "location" too. However, there are decent paying opportunities out there but salary will always vary by location. Furthermore, the high paying jobs usually want you to be at the beckon & call full time, which the Navy won't allow you to do. Some high paying spots are also "independent contractor" positions and that extra money is lost to malpractice insurance and supplies/equip. The more flexible employers that will "understand" your part time status and Navy obligations often pay less than top scale. You also might negotiate a higher salary by opting out of employee benefits, since you have coverage through the Navy. Beware of working on civilian patients without some sort of liability protection though. Anyone can sue you for any reason when you are in private practice.

However, even 0000 Corpsmen with ward time can challenge misc licenses in various states. (Including LVN in CA). IDC's have quite a few options they can run with. Some NEC's, such as 8427, can allow you to earn EMT-P. I had an HM2 I sent to Surg Tech school and now he is one of the OR tech's on the TV show, Dr 90210, and works for other plastic surgeons. I had an HMCS that is now an medical equip tech takes home a respectable paycheck. Or a HM1 8432 that now handles OSHA issues for LA Co. Or an HM I went to RTC with is a psych tech for a local sheriff dept responding to 5150's. Another HM used his military security clearance to go fly a desk with a business doing classified aerospace work - nothing to do with medical. Not to mention all the FMF Doc's I know that are now wearing a badge playing cops & robbers.

Your career is what you make of it.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Some general advice on how to approach a school request

http://www.corpsman.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36256&postcount=33

[Vogelms]

The moonlighting part is just for a little extra money. I'm good about saving and have around 20k stashed in government bonds to try and collect a little interest. I'm 27, married, and have a 16 month old; an extra source of income would only be a bonus and not necessary, but nice nonetheless. As far as budgeting, I do not overextend myself and am not in debt. More income would only equal more savings, so seeking a little extra on the side is not out of desperation.

Thanks for the informative links... I'm underway currently so my internet is a bit slow. I have researched many NEC's and discussed them with my Chief, but most of the information came from military.about.com, which is not exactly as indepth as I'd like. It's coming down to the wire on my enlistment so the time for choosing is quickly approaching.

[8404]

Vogelms:

I just want to throw this out there, in the event you are unaware of it. Forgive me if you already knew. I had one person inquire about the NEC and wasn't even aware it was math intensive!

NEC 8452 Radiology Technologist. You need to be well versed in Algebra and have the ability to pick up on Physics 1, 2 & 3 in an extremely fast paced environment. Some detailers will even go as far as wanting to see either your high school or any college transcripts which depict your math grades. They want to ensure they are sending only qualified candidates.

Moonlighting: I know for a fact that Portsmouth, VA does restrict the amount of hours a Sailor can moonlight. I'm sure other commands are the same.

Although there 'are' those who love to push the envelope. I have found they all eventually get caugtht and it's not worth attempting to work more than your command allows.

Good luck to you.

[Doc_Stevens]

back in the late 70's, I was working the midnight shift at Boone Clinic at NAB Little Creek and moonlighted (although not in the medical field). I was up front and told them that the needs of the Navy meant more than my part-time job. They worked around my schedule and I had a little extra spending money. Thank heaven for Seven-Eleven ;-)

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Oh yea, I forgot this site:

Navy Credentialing Opportunities Online (COOL)
https://www.cool.navy.mil/hm.htm

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

You might want to focus on a route that will land you a nice career once you leave the Navy. Whether you get out after 1 tour or 20 years, you are still going to need to find employment in the civilian world.

One of the tougher things I try to pass to my junior sailors is getting them out of the "job" mindset and into a "career" mindset. (Unfortunately I know plenty of SNCO's with a "the military is my career" mindset that have absolutely no plan for what they will do when they get that final DD214.)

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

The moonlighting part is just for a little extra money. I'm good about saving and have around 20k stashed in government bonds to try and collect a little interest. I'm 27, married, and have a 16 month old.

Outstanding to hear you are not in debt and actually has some savings! You would not believe how rarely I run across people with a mature sense of fiscal discipline. One "unusual" gift I've tried to give to misc kids (niece, newphew, etc.) is to establish an ESA or IRA for their future. Not only do they get at least an extra 15-years of compounding interest & an instant nestegg as they become adults but when it's time to send presents I have the option of either buying a gift or making a deposit.

Hopefully you do indeed have "government bonds" that actually pay a decent return and not savings bonds such as Series EE Bonds that typically pay below inflation rates. I still have about $15k in Series EE bonds bought in the 90's but those are paying 3.9% to 5.5%. Recent changes in the law over the years has made Series EE bonds less attractive and a poor investment. New bonds issued in 2008 only pay about 1.3% fixed for 20-years* and interest is only compounded (paid to you) semiannually.

I don't know the details of the current economy, but in general, your savings/investments need to pay at least 3% on average just to keep up with inflation. If you are not making 3% then your savings could be eroding in value as inflation marches on. Series EE bonds are better than nothing and they have a several advantages, but much better investment products with the same low level of risk are out there as well. (However, be aware that a 3-month interest penalty applies to bonds redeemed before being held at least 5-years.)

For instance the NFCU is paying 2.66% to 4.83% depending on the accout/terms you select. Not only are the rates higher but the interest is compounded daily, so you immediately earn interest on your previous interest payment instead of having to wait 6 months. Downside? The interest is likely taxable so you need to calculate if the extra interest gained is more than whatever the new tax cost would be. Also, cash has a way of burning a hole in some people's pockets. I know a couple people who keep money in bonds just to counter the urge of impulse buying. Too much of a hassle for instant purchases, but liquid enough to cash out in an emergency (typically without penalty for early withdrawal)

*Note: If you keep the bond to full maturity, it will pay out 3.5% since the face value is guaranteed upon maturity. However most people cash out EE bonds long before full maturity so they only get 1.3% interest and the government pockets the rest.

Currently inflation as of Nov2008: "...4.92% annualized rate of inflation as measured by the Consumer Price Index for all Urban Consumers (CPI-U)."
http://www.savingsbonds.gov/news/pressroom/currenteebondratespr.htm

But I am WAAAAAAAAY off topic at this point....

[KentuckyBoy]

We could talk about this all day, but one important things about EE bonds is that they are bought at half the face value. Example: You pay $500, your bond is worth $1000.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

one important things about EE bonds is that they are bought at half the face value. Example: You pay $500, your bond is worth $1000.

Not entirely true.

Sure you buy a EE bond for $50 and the face value is $100, but the bond is not "worth" $100 until 20 years after the purchase date.

Furthermore, your $50 investment earns only 1.3% interest for the first 19-years, 364-days and that is only about $85.
($50 investment + $35 interest) If you cash your bond just one day early, the gov keeps the difference between interest earned and face value ($15).

It is not until the day the bond turns 20 years old that it is worth $100. The Treasury does not guarantee face value until after 20 years, so you get a one day "bonus" to make up the deficiency but then back to the 1.3% interest rate.

One benefit though is that you only pay federal income tax on the interest earned and if the money is used towards certain approved purchases (such as education) then it becomes tax free. But some states do not have an income tax so this tax benefit is meaningless in those states. Another benefit is that it is a buy-&-forget investment you can ignore.

However, since most people buy bonds with payroll deductions, quite frequently the deduction does not match the purchase price and there are procedural delays between company payday, federal processing, and bond purchase date. Therefore it is quite common that money sits in an administrative limbo earning nothing for a matter of days to months depending on the individual's situation.

Way back in the way-back, I ignorantly signed up for a $5 deduction from my weekly paycheck to buy EE bonds and it was some time before I realized that my money sat in libo - earning nothing - for over 11 weeks before my bond was purchased. Even when I increased the deduction up to $25 a week, it was still 2 to 3 weeks before a bond was purchased. It was not until my manager pointed out shortcomings of EE bonds that I read further into the details and compared EE bonds to other available investment products that I stopped buying EE bonds.

For short-term savings, always invest in SDP whenever you are eligible. For retirement/long-term savings, make regular contributions to TSP throughout your Navy career. The TSP G Fund is invested in Treasury securities currently paying 3.75% with basically the same "credit risk" as EE bonds (the US gov guarantees payment). However TSP accounts require periodic monitoring and adjustments. You cannot "buy-&-forget". My TSP account took a hit with the market dive in 2008, but I was earning double-digit returns as high as 42.92% for earlier years. By transferring money from the "high risk" funds into the "no risk" G Fund the threat of additional losses is eliminated and my money is "safe" from the turbulent market during the current economic downturn. When the market improves I'll transfer money back to the high risk funds for better returns.

http://www.corpsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=945

So some years I earned 42.92% return, this year I'm getting 3.75%, next year I'm not sure but new Series EE bonds will get just 1.3% for the next 20 years....

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

TSP, SDP, and Series EE bonds are only three investment options. Tons of savings and investment products are out there.

Depending on when you bought your EE bonds, the rules and benefits have changed. Older Series EE Bonds are better than new EE bonds in most regards.

I still have some money tied up in old EE bonds because it serves a limited purpose in my overall investment portfolio. Much better investment options are available and as a general rule I discourage the purchase of new EE bonds for most people in most circumstances. However I do realize that for some people in some circumstances, investing is Series EE bonds is the only way they can hide money from themselves to attempt to build a nest egg or rainy day fund.

Paying off a credit card costing 11% to 36% is often a far better choice for most people than investing in an EE bond paying 1.3% return (equating to a -10% to -35% opportunity cost). But some people simply take on additional debt whenever their credit cards are paid off and they always spend everything kept in their checking account, so EE bonds are the only way for those individuals with bad financial habits to "save" money.

Credit union savings account, certificates of deposit (CD), money market savings, IRA, ESA, true gov bonds, municipal bonds, etc.. typically have zero risk and virtually all pay better than EE bonds. Most investors should explore those other options before considering buying new EE bonds.

For reservists with civilian jobs, ALWAYS take advantage of plans that provide "matching funds" (the company matches all or part of whatever you save). The company basically pays you to save. Why pass up the free money?