????

[corpsman20060926]

:swn: If you are attached to a squadron, doe sthat mean your AW/NAC? Will you fly in aircraft while its on a mission. Like a P-3...Does it have a corpsman on board while its on a mission?

:err:

Thanks,
Corpsman20060926

[Da-Chief]

No,
you have to be "Billeted" for a position and on P3's unless doing a "MEDEVAC" you will not normally be on the plane. P3's go out for 10-12 hours at a time doing Recon, Your job is to stay at home doing sick call etc.. on the rest of the squadron. You will fly alot though as there are always good deal flights you can get on if your work is done etc..

There are no NAC billets in the P-3 Community unless you see one who cross rated to HM. You can and have to procure your "AW" (Air Warfare) designation though if your assigned to this type of squadron..

I was stationed with VP-94 years ago, it was my first squadron, after that it was VFA-204 (F/A-18's) where you "DON'T" fly.. ;-)

HMC

[mestup3117]

I'm currently with a P-3 squadron and no, our squadron Corpsman doesn't fly with us. There's a little difference with what you're thinking about.
SAR Corpsman are Naval Aircrew (NAC) qualified. They fly in HELOs.
However, just because you aren't NAC doesn't mean you can't fly. If you become an AVT, you will have the opportunity to fly CASEVAC.
Hope that helps.

[AVTDOC96]

With all that has already been said...If your with a Marine Corps Helo Squadron, you most likely will have the chance to fly. I have been with my squadron for over 3 years and have qualified through the Marine Corps AO Program and have flown over 260 hours. The down side is the Navy doesn't recognize the qualification. I'm working that issue now, since I am getting ready to transfer.

[Poolzer]

Well there really isnt a simular qualification on the Navy side to an AG. All flyers at helo squadrons are Naval Aircrew qualified (go through NACCS). Granted straight 8406's can get flight time, but to be a crewman, you need to pick up the 8401 rating. Currently 8406's that want the secondary 8401 NEC only have a few TAD places to hit then can go onto either a station SAR shore tour or an HS/HSC sea tour.

[AVTDOC96]

That is correct Poolzer. I've looked into this in great depth and have been talking to PERS and ECM's. Right now they are "looking at it". The issue that I have, is I know that there are other HM's out there that are wearing the AC wings, that have not gone through NACCS, and were awarded them by their Marine Corps Unit. Back in December a MARADMIN came out governing CAC wings for casevac HM's, but from what my SgtMaj was telling us here is that they were not working as the "Crew", just doing their jobs as an HM. Don't get me wrong, i believe that they deserve it. I just don't understand why I went through all this training and worked hard to be a member of the crew to just have to take the Wings off. I'm not saying that I deserve the AC wings, but the Navy does AO wings, but because i'm not billeted here to fly, I don't rate those either. It's become a big issue here at my current unit, because there are 2 other HM's running the same program. It has been forwarded up the COC for there review and it is also being sent to PERS for their review.

In all actuallity, I don't really care if I get to keep the wings on my chest, but I would like to see things change for future HM's.

[MAWDoc]

With all that has already been said...If your with a Marine Corps Helo Squadron, you most likely will have the chance to fly. I have been with my squadron for over 3 years and have qualified through the Marine Corps AO Program and have flown over 260 hours. The down side is the Navy doesn't recognize the qualification. I'm working that issue now, since I am getting ready to transfer.

...and they won't. This has been an issue that has been up and down for AT LEAST a decade. The ONLY HM NEC that rates NAC wings is 8401. Absolutely must attend NACCS. It doesn't matter whether you've flown 1000 hours as an AO/G - you can't keep the wings once you transfer out of the HMM/HMH or HMLA you earned them in. Also, you can't wear them in any Navy service uniform while you are still there either. (Unless this has changed). While I agree with your frustration in that you qualified for them, they are not a warfare qualification, and require annual requal (NATOPS check rides).

That being said, CAC wings are permanent provided a battle star is earned. CASEVAC corpsmen are the largest group affected by this, but also applies to AO/Gs who meet the criteria for them as well.

I truly hope the Navy changes its policy on this issue (NAC wings w/ FMF squadrons), as the Marines who earn them keep them regardless their billet, but I long ago stopped holding my breath...

R/
HMC(FMF)

[AVTDOC96]

Personnally, i'd like to see them make it for the Naval Aerial Observer Wings. That program is out there primarily for Intel Officers and those billeted to fly as a part of the mission, but they could add HM's to the program that go through the proper qualifications.

They still are not authorized in any Navy service uniform.

I don't expect to get anywhere with it, but i've got to try for those that come after me. The worst that I can be told is no. I've hit a lot of road blocks with this, but keep plugging away looking for ways to make it happen.

Thanks for the insight Chief!

V/R,
HM2

[AVTDOC96]

Just a quick update on the wings from the Marines. My HMC forwarded all the information down to 4th MAW, the 4th MAW CMC called today and said that he has a meeting with the MCPON sometime at the end of the month and he will bring it up. I'll keep everyone informed of what I find out. With any luck something will change for all of the "Docs" that fly with the Marines and qualify as an AO/G.

[corpsman20060926]

Whats a AO/G?

corpsman20060926

[AVTDOC96]

Aerial Observer/Gunner.

[puckmedic]

I was an AVT for 18 years. I never flew as part of my job. Well I did fly in a helo coming back to the ship, just a curled up sleeping passenger on the deck.

I also flew on an over land trip to Lake of the Ozarks on a boondoggle (fishing tripall week end and great public relations with local highschool kids on Friday). That was reward from the XO for working an angle and forcing Naval Hospital Jacksonville to put my guys getting ready for six month cruise ahead of the rest waiting for appointments.

Amazingly, they forgot the active fleet is priorty number one and I had no problem telling them.

If you want a flying job you have to go through aircrew school and pass and then do annual refreshers. The AO program is good on the green side, but the Navy feels it not a requirement to doing business.

AO is in this case Aerial Observer or something like that. It's not a paying flight billet far as I know.

You want to fly, go green side grunts. They hop in and outt of helos like they were doing chinese fire drills!!!

[MAWDoc]

AO is in this case Aerial Observer or something like that. It's not a paying flight billet far as I know.

Puckmedic,

When you volunteer and fly as a AO/G in Shitters, Phroggs and now, Ospreys (I know one HM doing this now), you go on local flight skins. Though not the same amount of money as the guys MOS'd as Crew Chiefs, I believe it is Non-Crewmember (confusing, I know) pay. About $150 month (used to be $110), provided you meet your minimum flight hours (no less than 4 per month).

Marines are a little different with their Enlisted flight pay than the Navy. I want to say it is rank specific now, and caps out at $240 a month. There are "skins" limits in a squadron, too...not every Marine/Corpsman can be on flight pay as AO/Gs. Each squadron has a limited number of "homegrown" billets that they can utilize, and is set by HQMC.

But yes, you fly, you get $$$.

Also, don't need to be an AVT - HM8404s are assigned to all helo squadrons in the Marine Corps, too, and are just as eligible as the AVT in the squadron to fly. In fact, a lot of AVTs are not physically qualified for DIF (duties involving flight), or they'd have gone SAR (HM 8401)...

R/
Chief