How does the FMF 8404 function in a Marine Company/Platoon?

[The_Dirty_Name]

How does the Corpsman function in a Marine Company/Platoon?

Greetings all. I need info on how a 8404 will function.


How many Corpsmen are there for every standard infantry Company/Platoon?
Who does the Corpsman report to? What is the chain of command for the Corpsman, both Navy and Marine?
Under certain circumstance do Corpsman lead fire-teams or assistant leaders during a patrol? I am thinking they do not issue commands to others that are not medically related. Furthmore, what level of authority do they have?
From what I have researched from the FMSS manual, Corpsman are found at the Squad level (12 man element). If there is only one Corpsman/Platoon who would provide medical care for the other squads if they are far apart?

Do Marines and Corpsman train together when state side? I hope they get to spend a lot of time together to build up unit integrity prior to shipping out.
Seeing how this NER involves battlefield conditions and the need for intense training, are Corpsman good candidates for eye corrective surgery?
Follow up. Does the Navy allow the FMF Corpsman extra allowance for pistol and rifle training while state side? I guess if they are with a Marine outfit while state side I know the answer. Thanks for your time? More questions to come....

[Da-Chief]

Hey Dirty Name,
To get you and others started go here..
http://www.corpsman.com/fmf-pqs-studyguides.html

This will pretty much answer all your questions and also help prep you or the FMF pin.

Ours is to lead you to water.. yours is to drink..

Good Luck after reading said info provided to you from CrazyCajun (Corpsman.com) and you still have problems, come ask.

HMC Da-Chief Crone

[0311_DoC]

I will try to answer some of these as best I can....

How does the Corpsman function in a Marine Company/Platoon?

Greetings all. I need info on how a 8404 will function.


How many Corpsmen are there for every standard infantry Company/Platoon?
Who does the Corpsman report to? What is the chain of command for the Corpsman, both Navy and Marine?
Under certain circumstance do Corpsman lead fire-teams or assistant leaders during a patrol? I am thinking they do not issue commands to others that are not medically related. Furthmore, what level of authority do they have?
From what I have researched from the FMSS manual, Corpsman are found at the Squad level (12 man element). If there is only one Corpsman/Platoon who would provide medical care for the other squads if they are far apart?

Do Marines and Corpsman train together when state side? I hope they get to spend a lot of time together to build up unit integrity prior to shipping out.
Seeing how this NER involves battlefield conditions and the need for intense training, are Corpsman good candidates for eye corrective surgery?
Follow up. Does the Navy allow the FMF Corpsman extra allowance for pistol and rifle training while state side? I guess if they are with a Marine outfit while state side I know the answer. Thanks for your time? More questions to come....


How many per Platoon: In a perfect world you have 1 Corpsman per squad there are usually 3 squads in a platoon and 12 per company cuz there are usually 4 squads. And one LPO in charge of them all, answerable usually only to the 1STSGT and the CO. As far as leading people in ambush or raid situation, not in my experience. As far as authority YOU are the Medical Authority. And yes we train together, you live, breathe, eat, PT and sleep with the Marines you have sworn to heal.

SEMPER FI

[The_Dirty_Name]

Thanks for the info and feedback guys.

Good to know that there are more 8404 Corpsman in a Platoon and Company than I thought.

[Doc A]

Never worry there Dirty Name. You and your Marines will get along just fine. Believe me they will cover you and help you in many ways. I never had a better time in my years in the Navy as those spent with MY Marines!

[schirling_rules]

hey dirty name,

I'm the senior line corpsman for a Weapons Company, but we are being used a a straight rifle company due to the lack of need for anti-armor or 81MM mortars here in Iraq. I have 11 Corpsman that work under me. 4 for Mobile Assault Platoon (4 truck sections), 4 for 81s (4 squads), 2 for STA (snipers) and me who reports directly to the company 1stSgt and the Battalion Surgeon on ALL medical issues for my 175 Marines. While my regular platoon guys are just regular grunt Docs, my two sniper Corpsman DO get utilized as Asst Team Leaders, SAW gunners, and one even carries a Sniper Rifle. So there is a lot of diversity. I know my Corpsman have all shot TOWs, 240G, even the 81mm Mortars. Why you do still have to check in with your Navy LPO and LCPO at Battalion level, your Green chain of command comes first. As for wether or not they spend a lot of time with their Marines, every one of my Corpsman consider themselves Marines first, and Docs second. You're a shooter until there is a casualty, and thats the way the Marines like it. Corpsman that come in and pull the "Doc Card" to get out of PT, Humps, MCMAP, or anything else are NOT respected. Stay out of the safety vehicle and learn how to blend with the Marines. You'll do really well then

[The_Dirty_Name]

Great info HM3!

Very interesting.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Have a good'n.

[puckmedic]

Here's another tid bit. You'll notice he is an HM2 and in charge of 11 HMs? I was an HM2 before I was in charge of anything!!! I think if its leadership responsibility you want, the green side will give it to you faster. Of course on that side of the fence it is a bit less forgiving. There is no room for failure, none.

I was a squadron DOC with aviation commands, i worked pretty independant. I was always the number two guy or the number three guy in rank when formed up on the ship with the airwings. Not a lot of pressure at number two and none at number three really.

I did lead at FMSS as a squad leader, at various clinics as I was TAD when home and also at NH Guam. My strength however was working independantly. You'll soon find out your strengths, but never forget, what you do and how you do it, leader or not by title, can make you a leader and a mentor.

[The_Dirty_Name]

Thanks puckmedic for the additional insight.

___

[puckmedic]

sorry meant he is an HM3

[popsie]

You will not be bored. When I was in, it was a different time. Officially the corpsman were non combatants. Officially there was a time we couldn't qualify on weopons. Officially I was always getting in trouble for carrying a weapon during training exercises. Officially I was verbally reprimanded for taking coomand of a patrol. Unofficially I was encouraged to do whatever I could to accomplish my mission as a corpsman and a member of the unit I was attached to. You have to remember a corpsman is support personel. When nobody is getting hurt or needs your official capacity. Nobody knows what to do with you. So when in Rome. Learn, adapt, conquer what needs conquering. Basically a Jack of all trades till you're needed. Thinks threes with the green the chain of command it short.

[The_Dirty_Name]

You will not be bored. When I was in, it was a different time. Officially the corpsman were non combatants. Officially there was a time we couldn't qualify on weopons. Officially I was always getting in trouble for carrying a weapon during training exercises. Officially I was verbally reprimanded for taking coomand of a patrol. Unofficially I was encouraged to do whatever I could to accomplish my mission as a corpsman and a member of the unit I was attached to. You have to remember a corpsman is support personel. When nobody is getting hurt or needs your official capacity. Nobody knows what to do with you. So when in Rome. Learn, adapt, conquer what needs conquering. Basically a Jack of all trades till you're needed. Thinks threes with the green the chain of command it short.

Aye.
I am thinking jack of all trades also.

The Corpsman has to be the fire-team/squad/Platoon Leaders rock.

Meaning, those leaders can always depend on that Corpsman to:

1. Improve morale
2. Prevent the lose of morale
3. Do odd jobs. (watch, gunsmith, sentry, dig holes)
4. be a team player
5. someone to talk to. Both therapeutic and tactical.
6. Most importantly know that the Corpsman will be a rock when their support role ends and EMT begins.

[popsie]

dirty name I have a few more for your list. 7) cook 8) scrounger 9) all around handy man 10) the rube goldberg of the unit. 11) trouble shooter 12) when the bell bell grab your bag and go

[The_Dirty_Name]

dirty name I have a few more for your list. 7) cook 8) scrounger 9) all around handy man 10) the rube goldberg of the unit. 11) trouble shooter 12) when the bell bell grab your bag and go

Aye.

I learned something new. I never had heard of Rube Goldberg before this thread. Granted, I was familar with his work (Looney Tones).

__

I have number 8 down already:p.

[DocHayes]

Right now I'm a Platoon Doc for an Artillery Battery, and the TO for HM's for Arty is only one per platoon... so there's 3 of us total. Its a lot of responsibility looking after your Marines.

Artillery isn't so bad... but I think its harder to make yourself more assertive in the unit. A lot of the jobs that go on in the Battery, make it hard for the DOC to integrate, and often times you end up sitting on the sidelines waiting for something to happen.

But there's other jobs you can do... volunteer for duty (if they'll let you), lead PT, get qual'd on Crew Serve weapons.

[The_Dirty_Name]

Roger that Doc.

Thanks for the response.

[The_Dirty_Name]

Thought I would bump this thread. There is a lot of info.

I was reading through the old 2001 edition FMSS handbook. I have a some questions.

The following is from the website:

The Medical Staff of an Infantry Battalion consists of two Medical Officers and sixty-five Hospital Corpsmen. They make up the Battalion Medical Platoon.
a. One of the two Medical Officers in an Infantry Battalion is designated as the Battalion Surgeon. The Battalion Surgeon is a special staff officer who advises the Battalion Commander on matters pertaining to the health of the Battalion. The duties of the Battalion Surgeon include supervising patient treatment, planning, organizing, training the Battalion Medical Staff, and performing such other duties as the Battalion Commander may direct.
b. The other Medical Officer in an Infantry Battalion is designated as the Assistant Battalion Surgeon. The primary job of the Assistant Battalion Surgeon is to direct, manage, and supervise the operation of the Battalion Aid Station (BAS), and to perform such additional duties as may be assigned by the Battalion Surgeon.
c. Twenty-one of the sixty-five Hospital Corpsmen in an Infantry Battalion are assigned to the Battalion Aid Station (BAS), under the supervision of the Assistant Battalion Surgeon. This group of twenty-one Hospital Corpsmen is called the Aid Station Group. The Aid Station Group is capable of splitting into two sections to operate two separate Battalion Aid Stations when necessary. The Battalion Surgeon will normally head the second aid station.
d. The remaining forty-four Hospital Corpsmen assigned to the Battalion Medical Platoon are divided into four groups of eleven Corpsmen called Company Medical Teams. One Medical Team is assigned to the Weapons Company and one is assigned to each of the three Rifle Companies of an Infantry Battalion.
e. The Senior Hospital Corpsman from each Medical Team is designated as the Company Corpsman and is assigned to the Company Headquarters. The remaining corpsmen assigned to a company are designated Platoon Corpsmen.
Resource: http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OperationalMedicine/DATA/operationalmed/Manuals/FMSS/0301.htm (http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OperationalMedicine/DATA/operationalmed/Manuals/FMSS/0301.htm)

What factor (pay grade/experience/) puts you in the Aid Station Group (21 Corpsman)? They assist the Assistant Battalion Surgeon so they most likely are very well trained.

Can women be present in the Aid Station Group? I am just trying to figure out where the closes women can be found… O.k., there has got to be a better way to put that. Basically are women found in some of the Battalion 65 Corpsman spots?

The Battalion Aid Station (BAS) is the second link in the emergency medical chain right?
What are the medical capabilities of a BAS?
Where are Battalion Aid Stations commonly found in battlefield conditions?

What factors put you in the Battalion Medical Platoon?

Do grunt Corpsman commonly ever go to the BAS? Seems like that would be the place to go to stock up on supplies and learn some great stuff.

__
Looks like I am taking this past the Platoon and Company level.

Thanks in advace for any replys.

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Thought I would ask

You'll learn all this later, but....

1. All pay grades E1-E9 and all levels of experience might work in a BAS. Most are junior Corpsman working under the guidance of an LPO (typically HM2 or HM1) and the direction of a MO (typically LT or LCDR) and/or IDC (typically HM1 or HMC). Individual training, personal competencies and earning the trust/respect of the MO/IDC will determine what each Corpsman is allowed to do. Assist as directed during traumas & emergencies. Often do preliminary patient sick call work-ups and recommend draft treatment plans for the MO/IDC to review and approve or revise.


2. Yes, female Corpsmen often have the opportunity to work in or even run a BAS.


3. Yes and no. For OIF the CASEVAC of seriously injured often bypass the BAS and take patients directly from the battlefield to a CSH.


4. You name it. From headaches and blisters to doing whatever needs to be done to stabilize the patient well enough that he will survive evac to next echelon of care. Read links provided in next post if curious about some specifics.


5. For OIF, there seems to be a BAS of some sort at just about every FOB.


6. Personal ambition or luck of the draw. Sometimes you ask for it. Other times they give it to you whether you want it or not.


7. Yes they do. It is a common resupply point and grunt Doc's are sometimes required to pull duty or attend training at the local BAS. It seems the BAS regularly tries to grab every Doc stuck at the FOB to assist with morning sick call or to stand misc BAS duties. Not all units will allow their Doc's to get sucked into the BAS duty schedule, however virtually all medical personnel are expected to report to the BAS during mass casualties and misc FOB emergencies. Whenever moving into a FOB for an extended stay, Corpsmen should introduce themselves, attend a BAS orientation and get training on local SOP's so they know what to do during emergencies and how to resupply or get their Marines routine care. (Typically the more you support the BAS, the more the BAS will support you and the more likely they are to grant you those urgent favors that always seem to pop up.)

[HMC-FMF-PJ]

Some misc readings on the subject for the curious....

Hospital Corpsman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corpsman
(ya like that first external link?)

General Medical Officer (GMO) Manual: Administrative Section
Fleet Marine Force (FMF)
http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/ed2/GMO%20Manual/Administration/fmf.doc
(Medical Org starts at item (11) on page 3.)

Full Metal Doctor: Corpsmen live life on the "green side"
All Hands Magazine, Dec 1997
http://www.mediacen.navy.mil/pubs/allhands/dec97/decpg14.htm

Corpsmen with Marines in the Field
Handbook of Hospital Corps, 1949
http://www.ww2pacific.com/corpsman.html
(WW2 write-up so some terminology is dated but still has good info)

Always on call for the Always Faithful
Marine Corps News, May 9, 2005
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab50049d458/b378a0249b7288f285256ffc0031ec2f?Open

Health Services Support Operations, MCWP 4-11.1
http://www.iiimef.usmc.mil/medical/FMF/FMFE/FMFEref/MCWP 4-11-1.pdf

NAVMED P-117, Manual of the Medical Department (MANMED), Change 117,
Chapter 19, Fleet Marine Force
http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil/Files/Media/directives/MANMED%20CHANGE%20117.pdf

Life and Death in the War Zone
PBS NOVA, Mar 2004
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/combatdocs/